| Happy New Year
Hey LN, thanks for chiming in! Yes, that is a breathtaking quote. And, indeed, the Jews were gathered from the north and the four corners of the earth back into Israel. Remember when Russia finally let them go. And how about that amazing airlift from Ethiopia?
It is truly fascinating to see how people resist just simply looking at the facts. I think the atheists have many good points, but until they admit the obvious, that Torah prophecies and their fulfillments are truly remarkable, they come off as having "blind faith" in their own set of beliefs.
Anyway, I guess you will bring in the new year before we do on this side of the pond, so enjoy it, and we'll see you there soon!
Von Cello wrote:as it stands, the Torah has stuck out the non-believers and hit a grand slam!
anni maskima - I agree! The more you study, the more proof you're bound to find. Here's one of my favourite texts: Jeremiah 16:14-16.
14 "Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when it shall no longer be said, 'As the LORD lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt,' 15 but 'As the LORD lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the north country and out of all the countries where he had driven them.' For I will bring them back to their own land that I gave to their fathers.
Meanwhile, my sincere wish all of you and yours here for a Happy New Year in good health!
| Here's the Final Score for 2008
Well Canarsie, we won't be around in a few thousand years, but we are around now and so far here's the score:
Torah predicted mass eviction of Jews: Done
Torah predicted return (Jeremiah gave it 70 years): Done
Torah predicted 2nd exile: Done
Torah predicted Jews scattered to the four corners of the earth: Done
Torah predicted anti-Semitism but the Jews will remain a people: Done
Torah predicted 2nd return: Done (1948)
You can wait a thousand years to see if there will be a third eviction and return, but as it stands, the score is Torah - 6, Non-Believers 0!
Happy New Year!
| The fun begins!
Hey, why don't you make a video response?!
Just make a webcam recording of ten minutes or less.
Then go here:
Upload it, and within minutes you too can be on your way to You Tube stardom!
If we carried on our conversation through videos at You Tube, hundreds or maybe thousands of people would see it. And as you can see from my video, we are already getting a lot of comments.
| im here to present god but first,ive got to answer the phone
i think your guestbook goes supersonic wen you video instead of write here. you can write plus link to videos also..i see that you are really different in vid than in writting..you xpress yourself better and please change the ringtone on your phone..
| Hey, you're famous!
Hey Canarsie, I just put a video up on You Tube about the debate that we have been having. Enjoy!
include me out
400 nukes or whatever we cant say its over till its not still going on.
ill wait a few thousand yrs more to see if youre right. this is not a prediction,its sure..
| Wanna make a bet?
Steve wrote: but maybe the jews will again,a third time be thrown out and return yet again,,would that keep with your idea?
No! That is not what was prophesied! That is the amazing thing about this. At least so far, the prophecies have been fulfilled with amazing accuracy. It said there would be two exiles and two returns and there were! But if there is a third, that would really throw a monkey wrench into the gears!
I suppose if the Jews were somehow kicked out of Israel again then we would really have to question whether or not the Torah is as great a book as many of us now think it is. On the other hand, there may be some hidden code about that that would surface at that time to explain that. And at that point, we would have to decide if that explanation made sense or not.
But here's the amazing thing... and this really blows my mind... according to most estimates Israel is sitting on at least 400 nukes! So who the hell is going to kick the Jews out now?
This is incredible, isn't it? The prophecy said two exiles and two returns. Anyone who wants to wager that this prophecy is wrong is betting against 400 nukes! The whole world will blow up before the Jews will ever be evicted again.
NOW do you get how amazing this is?!!!
| You got two eyes...
If you are looking at proof beyond a shadow of a doubt you will not find it. We accept most things in life without proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. When the doctor prescribes medicine most people take it. They don't first spend weeks looking at studies and making comparisons. They don't go to a lab to independently verify that the pill actually contains the drugs listed on the bottle. They just take the pill.
I would argue that religion should not be held to a higher standard than one we use involving things that can heal or possibly kill us.
There is nothing after the fact about the prophecies about the exiles and returns. There is much more detail here, and if you are interested you can find it in my book, Beyond Faith. For instance, the Torah says the first exile would be caused by a neighbor. And it was! It was caused by Babylon. It says the second exile would be caused by a nation whose language neither you nor your fathers would understand. And it was! Rome caused the second exile and it didn't exist at the time this prophecy was made so surely the Jews of that time never heard Latin. And since Rome was across the Mediterranean, and Romans did not come to Israel until they attacked it, Latin was unknown to those Jews too.
How in God's world could the author of the Torah know BEFOREHAND that the first exile would be from a neighbor and the second from a distant power? It would be impossible for any ordinary human to know this. So either the author made a good guess, or he had a pipeline to an extraordinary source of information, or He was God (as He says He is).
As I say, there is much more detail but I can't go into that kind of depth here. I would suggest you get my book, or if you are too cheap (ha, ha), just do searches on the exiles and returns of the Jews. I'm sure there are sites that detail the amazing amount of specific things that were also predicted to happen during these exiles and how they actually did happen.
This is prophecy BEFORE the events. And there is historical verification that these extremely unlikely things did occur. In fact, the ALL occurred. You can always find a way to deny this, but if you make a harder test for religion than you do for your doctor that is not really fair or logical.
But I do appreciate that you are at least interested in this. And the fact that you are so skeptical and full of questions makes you a perfect example of a person with a Jewish mind!
| i predict a mountain will rise to the sky.
i think my problem is a psychological block
st is not seen until afterwards..a book predicts st and it later happens ,,but maybe the jews will again,a third time be thrown out and return yet again,,would that keep with your idea?
it smells rotten and prediction that is unclear before but not after and
any prediction that comes true much later be it 70 or 2000years might just be a probable circumstance..a black will be leader of the great white nation was predicted in the 60s and it happened..a man would walk the moon was predicted in the 30s by jules vern.
you need to show me something beforehand as clear and that is improbable .but if its unclear before or clear and probble i cant really get into it. i was expecting to be amazed by you and this awakening of my mind but i still feel im in waiting..
| Missing the point
Let's give credit where credit is due. There are a lot of good features about the church and Hollywood, but the Jewish Bible should also get the credit it deserves for these prophecies that clearly came true against all odds
so why did the us gov stand around doing nothing knowing the profecy about 911?
was it a clear profecy or as you say only clear after the fact? if 9 11 had been a mountain in europe ANd a mountain in africa both destroyed would that have been the same profecy?
i think so..
im just not clear on how st can be so clear after but not beforehand...smells like fortune cookies..
of course you studied this all and in never did and msny jews believe wat u believe and many nonjews believe we jews are wrong..so it continues..
is there a profecy that a great sage tone man playing a designed corded apparatus will bring home a man who has moved far from the home to a plce where the horned male animal the bull is fought with?
| The greatest show on earth
I am amazed at your reaction. I said myself that the Bible codes are "more iffy". It is still a study in its infancy. But you took this as an opportunity to lump totally unrelated things together. You said, "the bible the church torah predictions all seem like hollywood." What does the church have to do with Torah predictions? And if they do have an entertainment quotient, why not? Why shouldn't religion be entertaining? Even if the Torah was written by God Himself, why wouldn't He want to entertain as well as educate? After all, are not all the great entertainers godlike in a certain way?
But the most telling thing is that you picked the admittedly weaker part of what I said. In the case of the Torah prophecies, these are not encoded. They are clearly written into the text, they are specific about what would happen and to whom, and they have been verified by history. I'd like to see the church or Hollywood match that feat!
Let's give credit where credit is due. There are a lot of good features about the church and Hollywood, but the Jewish Bible should also get the credit it deserves for these prophecies that clearly came true against all odds.
| paramount zion productions
It's crazy! You can't look for codes beforehand because you don't know what to look for! So the codes can only be used to amaze us after the fact.
im amazed..its like the chinese cookies. they all seem to relate to my reality.
religion is the best entertainment on earth.it amazes predicts.comforts and cant be downloaded like a movie which does the very same.
hollywood is selling religion .the bible the church torah predictions all seem like hollywood.
i guess the rabbi is like the entertainer.
| Guide to the Perplexed
Here's the deal ... we are talking about two different types of predictions. In the case of the exiles and returns, including the prediction that the first exile would last 70 years, these were written clearly into the text of the Bible. You can argue that they are vague, and let's face it, they do not give exact dates, but they are much more clear and specific than almost any other prophecy out there from any book or group of people.
Jesus said he is going to come back. Fine. But until he does come back, assuming he ever will, there is absolutely no way to know if he was telling the truth. But in the Torah God said the Jews would be evicted from Israel and then returned. This is clear. We know who we are talking about: Israel! We know what is predicted: an exile and a return. This kind of thing is very unlikely to happen. Yet God in the Torah predicted it would happen twice. And historically we can see that it did happen twice! To be fair you have to acknowledge that this is remarkable. You don't have to suddenly believe in God and get on your knees and pray! But to not acknowledge that this is unusual and impressive is to be in denial of a simple verifiable fact. Unusual things were predicted and they came true. But again, in the case of Jesus, he didn't come back so until he does, if he does, there is NO PROOF. I don't understand why you have a problem admitting this.
The other type of prediction is more iffy. The other is what is called a Bible Code or a Torah Code. In this case we find that by skipping equidistant letters other words can be found in the text. Now one argument against this is that you can find patterns in the phone book. This is true, but scholars argue that this phenomenon happens much more often and in much more impressive ways in the Torah. Mathematicians have even done calculations to show that at least some of the Torah codes are extremely unlikely to be there by chance. Also, there is a tradition going back centuries that "everything is hidden in the Torah".
In the case of 9/11, after it happened and they knew what to look for, they found Twin Towers, Airplane, and "It will fall" twice, all very close to each other in the text. The reason they didn't find this before is simple: who knew that planes would be used to hit the twin towers and that they would fall? Therefore, there was no way to look for it.
In the future maybe Spain will be taken over by Muslims in a land invasion and all the churches will be knocked down and replaced by mosques. Who knows? Should we look for a code that says, "Spain, Muslims invade, Churches fall, mosques replace"? Why would we look for this? Why not look for "Antartica, tornedo, monkey talks"? It's crazy! You can't look for codes beforehand because you don't know what to look for! So the codes can only be used to amaze us after the fact. If, in fact, someone did know the future and put all kinds of hints about it in the Torah, that would really be amazing. And it is possible. Even if it is an extraterrestrial or a time traveller, it is still amazing.
im lost on this
you say no terorist could have read this book and understood its prediction beforehand cause its in code its not clear its ambiguous
butafter the fact after the 9 11 its all claerly right there in same book as clear as the nose on my face..
so right now if i read its predictions they are unclear vague.but if i try to connect them to past events it becomes so obvious..
its not aheadlock..its a nuggie
No, this code was found after the fact. After the incident the reporter went looking for key words like Twin Towers and airplane. He just happened to find them right next to each other along with the phrase "it will fall" twice!THE WORDS TWIN TOWERS AND AIRPLANE WERE IN A BOOK WRITTEN THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE ENGLISH WAS INVENTED? There was no way to know beforehand that this would occur because no one would think to look for it.
anyone could read the torah and interpret it before or after and then do anything.this code you talk of is the problem..your proof your headlock is infact a code not a headlock at all.
| Truckin Through the South (composer's version)
| As for 70 years...
Steve wrote: 70 years in those days was like 2000 today.
There is an interesting twist to the 70 year exile: the fact that it would last 70 years was predicted! There you have your specificity. How could anyone know back then beforehand that the Jewish exile in Babylon would last 70 years? And if you argue that the Babylonians must have heard about the 70 years and that's why they let the Jews go after 70 years, that is extremely unlikely since they were enemies of the Jews! I think any objective person would have to admit that here we have another astonishing bit of evidence of something extraordinary in the Bible. Check out the prophecies:
Jeremiah 25:9-12 (NIV)
"I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the Lord, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin. I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp. This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years. "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever."
Jeremiah 29:10 (NIV)
This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfil my gracious promise to bring you back to this place."
2 Chronicles 36:20-23 (NIV)
He [Nebuchadnezzar] carried into exile to Babylon the remnant, who escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and his sons until the kingdom of Persia came to power. The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah. In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing: "This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: 'The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Anyone of his people among you--may the Lord his God be with him, and let him go up.'"
| Come on, give me an "A" professor!
How would a terrorist know that there was a prediction about the Twin Towers in the Bible? How would he know to look for it? There are millions of buildings in the world. Why would they look for that one? And why would Muslims look for predictions in the Torah? If anything they would be looking into the Koran.
No, this code was found after the fact. After the incident the reporter went looking for key words like Twin Towers and airplane. He just happened to find them right next to each other along with the phrase "it will fall" twice! There was no way to know beforehand that this would occur because no one would think to look for it.
The fact is, the Torah is an amazing book. It if full of properties that we don't see in other books. The New Testament and the Koran do not make predictions except for what will happen at "the end of time". Only the Torah makes predictions that people can see now.
As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. You said that if I could show you a prediction about 9/11 in the Torah you would "be mine". I then showed you one, but instead you found another way to wiggle out of the head lock! That is unfair. If you set up a test and the other person passes the test you really should give him the reward you held out. Otherwise you are a person who does not act according to reason and fairness.
| its too obvious?
so the terrorists also read the bible and read that it predicts twin towers to fall. next day the terrorists go and blow up the twin towers to make it true.
they too have access to the predictions. .imagine if i predict on oct 11th 2009 a great cellist will be hit by a car amd some terrorist decides to make it come true.. he hits vc on said day,
Am i a great predictor or a great instigator?
and maybe those who want the bible to be true go out of their way to make it happen. they read the modern interpretation and then decide to make it come true to give weight to their religion
i think if the bible were secret and the twin towers went down youd have a point but with every tom dick and harricrisna
knowing its predictions theres room to beieve that they made it happen to as i think cause its a great idea or to make their religion the true one. to blast others into believing..
| Let's hear what a rabbi has to say...
I may be on the radio soon. I was told that I will be on with a rabbi. Check out these short videos of him speaking. It's very interesting and inspiring.
| Okay, you are mine!
Steve wrote: show me a prediction of twin towers falling and im yours.
About the Author
Michael Drosnin is a reporter, formerly at The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal. He is the author of two New York Times bestsellers, Citizen Hughes and The Bible Code. He lives and works in New York City.
At 8:48 A.M. on September 11, 2001 I was awakened by the sound of an explosion that changed the world forever.
I turned on my clock radio and heard a news bulletin-a jumbo jet had crashed into one of the World Trade Center towers.
I ran up to my roof just in time to see a second Boeing 767 fly right into the second of the Twin Towers, setting it ablaze. It was obviously no accident. The two planes had been hijacked by terrorists. New York was under attack.
For more than an hour I stood alone on my roof and watched with increasing horror and disbelief as those two 110-story buildings, the silver monoliths that loomed over Lower Manhattan where I live, continued to burn, shooting giant orange flames out of the gaping holes, spewing huge plumes of black smoke up into the sky.
Suddenly, one of the towers collapsed. It just fell straight down. And then the second tower also imploded. They both disappeared in a cloud of dust that rushed up the street right toward me. In an instant they were gone.
My mind could not take in the scale of the destruction my eyes had seen. It was on a scale only captured in Biblical prophecy.
I ran down from the roof and immediately searched the ancient code on my computer, the Bible code. It was the one place I might find confirmation of the full danger, and a revelation of what was yet to come.
The hidden code, discovered in the Bible by a famous Israeli mathematician, had already revealed other world-shaking events that took place thousands of years after the Bible was written.
Now it revealed the entire event I had just witnessed. What I watched from my roof only minutes earlier, was there in detail on my computer screen in ancient Hebrew characters.
"Twin Towers" was encoded in the 3000-year-old text. "Airplane" appeared in exactly the same place. "It caused to fall, knocked down" crossed "airplane" and "towers."
What I saw happen with my own eyes on September 11, 2001 was encoded in the Bible 3000 years ago.
As I watched it all happen, I had only one thought, and when the first tower fell I said it out loud-"Oh my God, it's real."
It was not this terrorist attack that really shook me. It was what the Bible code predicted was yet to come.
On September 11 the President himself said that we were at war, that the "first war of the twenty-first century has begun." And a column in the New York Times was headlined "WORLD WAR III."
But until September 11 I never entirely believed it myself. I am not religious. I don't believe in God. I'm a secular, skeptical investigative reporter. I started out on the night police beat at the Washington Post, I covered corporate news at the Wall Street Journal, and I still have a flat-footed sense of reality. So although I wrote a book that made the Bible code known to the world, I woke up every morning doubting the danger was real.
On the morning of September 11 I was awakened by the event that proved it real.
Suddenly there was no room for doubt. It wasn't just Israel, it was the United States, it was New York. It was the city where I lived. It was just down the block. And I saw it happen with my own eyes.
The attack on New York, the attack on the World Trade Center, this unbelievable horror was not only encoded in the Bible-I had actually seen it in advance.
I had found it in 1993, right after the failed terrorist attack on the same two towers. "Twin Towers" was encoded in the Bible with "the warning, the slaughter," and that was crossed by "terror." "Terror" appeared a second time, and "it will fall, collapse" was also encoded twice.
But I assumed it was about the past, not the future. It never occurred to me that lightning would strike twice-that there would be another terrorist attack on the same two monoliths eight years later, that it would succeed, and knock both towers down.
And I never thought to look in the code for "airplane." As I explained to a friend at the CIA later that day, "No one could have imagined it would be done that way." "Someone did," he said.
After it happened, the warning was clear. It had been hidden in the Bible for 3000 years. Now it was obvious. Every detail was there.
The scientist who discovered the Bible code, Eliyahu Rips, found the same extraordinary code table on September 11 at his home in Jerusalem, and e-mailed it to me from Israel.
When I spoke to Dr. Rips, one of the world's leading authorities in group theory, a field of math that underlies quantum physics, he told me that he had calculated the odds.
The odds against the three key words-"twin" and "towers" and "airplane"-all appearing together in exactly the same place in the Bible, the odds against it happening by chance, were at least 10,000 to 1.
There was more. Osama bin Laden was named in the Bible code. Rips had found a single code sequence that declared him guilty-"the sin, the crime of bin Laden"-and it appeared in Genesis where the plain text told of "the city and the tower."
Also, in the same place, the original words of the Bible stated, "They saw the smoke rising above the land like the smoke of a furnace."
The leader of the hijackers, the pilot of the first plane that hit the towers, Mohammed Atta, was also identified.
"Terrorist Atta" was encoded in the Bible, and "Egyptian man" appeared in the same place.
| 70 =2000
i predict it will snow in the next month on your house. one month! thats not alot of tome. so if im right, am i the predictor?
i think the xians believe their son of a god will return and to them like the jews ,the time scale is wide,a few thousand yrs and its within belief..70 years in those days was like 2000 today. show me a orediction of twin towers falling and im yours.show me a great wave and im in. tell me about a strange event and be specific in timeframe and limited too and we all will go kosher..