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Post No. 1757
03/28/2008 01:08 PM
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kill steve

i read in nyt about growing antisemitism in europe especially spain but Im here and its bull

i dont buy bull
Von Cello 

Post No. 1756
03/28/2008 10:35 AM
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Teachable moment

I am not saying that I feel under attack all day long. The incident with that guy who grabbed me by the throat was a long time ago. Lately I have had very few experiences of outright anti-Semitism, but I still notice it everywhere in our culture. Sure, the average Christian has no hatred against the average Jew and vice versa. But when you start discussing people's religious beliefs in detail...that's where you start to see the problems.

For instance, I don't want to mention names but someone posted on this guestbook:

"I have never said that Jews killed Jesus. They certainly wanted too, but it's also in Matthew that the jews could not crucify Jesus becuase preparations were being made for Passover...had the High priests dispatched Jesus themselves, they would have been unclean and thus unfit to eat the passover supper. So, it was the Jews who pressured Pontius Pilate into giving the order to Have Jesus whipped and then hung on the cross. But in Pilate we see a man who pities Jesus, and takes to heart Jesus' words of the "Kingdom which is not of this world" (AKA Heaven)."

Now, I know he meant no harm. He is just repeating what he has read in the New Testament. But in my humble opinion, what he was taught is anti-Semitic. Here we have a very nice guy who said that he doesn't think the Jews killed Jesus "but they certainly wanted to". Really? Who says?

I find it very hard to believe the "the Jews" as a group ever wanted to do anything. The first thing anyone learns if they hang out with Jews is that Jews are always debating and disagreeing with each other. Steve, you and I are a perfect example of this! So first of all anyone who says "the Jews" did this or that, or thought this or that, is already engaging in a falsehood. Secondly, the Jewish leadership very rarely carried out capital punishment. As I said before the Talmud teaches that a court that carried out even one execution in 70 years was called a "bloody court". So it is highly unlikely that the Jewish leadership called for the execution of Jesus. And Jews NEVER crucified people. That was a Roman invention. This was the method of their enemy, Rome. So it is also highly unlikely that Jews would have wanted ANYONE crucified.

(For example, do Americans behead people? No! Why not? Because that is not our tradition. That is a Muslim tradition. We may hang people, we may electricute them, inject them with poison, shoot them in a firing squad...but we do not behead! The same would have been true for the Jews in Jesus' time. They did not crucify, nor would they call for a crucifiction any more than American would call for a beheading today. It just does not happen.)

Now the one who posted said "CERTAINLY the Jews wanted to (kill Jesus)". But I would say CERTAINLY they did not, and CERTAINLY they did not want anyone to be crucified. To me this is CERTAINLY anti-Semitism that is passed down to a lot of otherwise good people by the Church.

From what we know about Pilate he was like a Saddam Hussein. He was in evil, murdering, dictator with no sympathy at all for a Jew. No more than we would expect from a Hitler. Yet here a perfectly nice Christian boy is taught that NO, Pilate was a good guy! As the poster wrote, "So, it was the Jews who pressured Pontius Pilate into giving the order to Have Jesus whipped and then hung on the cross. But in Pilate we see a man who pities Jesus, and takes to heart Jesus' words of the "Kingdom which is not of this world" (AKA Heaven)." Just replace the word Pilate with Hitler and you will see how sick this is!

Pilate was a murderer. Pilate was a evil sick killer of innocents. NOT THE JEWS!!!!!!

This is anti-Semitic! This is a fabrication that the Romans concocted and added to the New Testament. This is NOT the word of God. This is a lie that has been passed down among Gentiles for 2,000 years. This lie led to the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, and is behind all the anti-Zionist propaganda that circulates all over the world.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but don't I have a right to be offended? Or must I as a Jew never talk about this? Must I just get along in the Christian world like "Canarsie", saying I'm an atheist, or something, and never confront the Christian world about the hate speech that they pass on to their children about my ancestors?

So, yes, no one grabbed my throat and threw me down on a table today. No one did it yesterday either. But someone today told a young child that "the Jews" wanted to kill Jesus today. And someone said that Hitler (Pilate) was a better man than the Jews. "Pilate pittied our Lord. He heard his message. But not the Jews! No, they wanted him dead! They screamed, Crucify him!" This is passed down from father to son, mother to daughter, priest to congregation all over the Western world!

Am I wrong? Was this not taught to a young child somewhere in the world this very day? And all I'm saying is after 2,000 years, enough already!! Leave the Jews alone!! Let the Jews live in peace. Teach the children about how wonderful the Jews are. Teach them about "do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Teach them about "they will turn their swords into plowshares". Teach them about, "the lion will lie down with the lamb". THIS is what Jews brought to the world. NOT "crucify him". THAT is Roman propaganda.

And this NEVER stops. Every day this is passed on by the thousands and maybe millions of churches that teach this as "the Gospel". Yes, this is "the good news". Let's all celebrate how the Jews wanted to kill Christ. Let's celebrate how the lovable Roman governor was better than the lowly Jew. He listened to Jesus. But not the Jew. No, the Jews were blind. And they still are bllind. Hurray, let's spread the good word brothers!

Sorry, again. But this is anti-Semitism. As Frank Zappa once sang:

Take the day and walk around. Watch the Nazis run your town. Then go home and check yourself. You think we're singing about someone else."

The Jews did not kill God. They did not want to kill God. They do not want to kill God. The Jews are a good people. They are a people who have suffered for generations because they believe they have a good message for all humanity. They believe that it is worth accepting all of this hatred, and even the violence, rather than give up on the message of LOVE that is at the core of Judaism. Judaism alone of all the religions says that God loves ALL of His children. And there is a place in heaven for EVERYONE, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever. What determines who goes to heaven is not a belief but your actions. Did you give charity today? Did you pass by someone in need on the street? Did you council someone who is going wrong? Did you say "I love you" to your wife or a friend? Did you teach a child right from wrong? Did you show sympathy to one in pain? Did you take a risk for peace? These are the things that get you into heaven. And even though someone once grabbed me by the throat for saying so, I agree with my mother: It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you are a good person.

Post No. 1755
03/28/2008 02:43 AM
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wadys mean you like me? hey mom...

i gota tell you i agree with israel 100 percent .its under attk and must fight

even preempt attcks on its people
by attacking first to destroy terror tools

but I think there are jews who really face the empty nest syndrome.. the antisemitism exists but they dont face it and they know others face it but they dont. They lik to talk about them hating us and see movies and rattle sabers but they are bored
they look for an event to give drama to their lives...I live in THIS world you talk about the THEM the THEY and i dont face this antijew feeling..I kno its there im not dunb blind but it aint so dramatic

theres probably more anti classical music feeling than antisemitic feeling in the world

Post No. 1754
03/28/2008 02:21 AM
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hit me that way i kno u lov me

first Im blonde with blue eyes
and im jewish
second I recall a jewish guy kicking a protestant in the ass just for being a protestant.
they all want to kill us he said after kicking him Im sure that protestant became antisemitic after that

i think you need to live among nonjews to see that most really couldnt care less if youre a jew or not.
in spain very catholic im known as a jew i have a big menora in my classroom..all students kno im jewish but the want ENGLISH CLASSES...

I kno some jewish guys in the states who have a psychdrama in their heads and want a clash of antijew movement so they can be the next dyan or meyer

its gotten boring for them

theres antisemitism and its taught to kids and theres anti cristian also taught. Each side has its stories from the biblee the news the folklore..wach says arent we right to teall our kids this or that but aaron you gotta see that religion and antisemitism is for you a subject on the net
you dont face it. its always the other jew who faces it in another country another city but Im that jew and im not facing it either

we talk about them hating us but we really dont face this hate..we live ok

it exists but some jews need the psychdrama they like to watch movies about hitler and after walk down the street just waiting for an attack...wanting an attack
Von Cello 

Post No. 1753
03/28/2008 12:13 AM
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Interfaith Dialogue

I think interfaith dialogue is extremely important. Yes, there are Jews who think Christians are "assholes", and when you look at how many Christians treated Jews over the centuries that is understandable. There are also many Christians who think the Jews are "assholes". And of course there are many Jews and Christians who think the Muslims are "assholes" and vice versa. Ha! I can't believe I'm talking about such a serious subject using the word "asshole". I must really be an "asshole" for doing this. By the way, who came up with that word anyway?

When I was a kid my mother had a little plaque in the house that read, "Indian prayer - Oh great spirit grant that I may not criticize another until I have walked a mile in his shoes." Now I don't know if the Native Americans were truly the ones who first said that, but the point is a good one. A Christian can never know what it is like to grow up Jewish, and vice versa. But by talking and explaining, we can at least try to understand each other.

I'll tell you a true story. When I was in my first year of college in Boston, one day I was doing my laundry in the basement of my dorm, when in walked in a very large guy with blond hair and blue eyes. He was a vocal major, and he came down to do his laundry too. As we were waiting for the clothes to dry he and I got into a conversation about religion. He was a born again Christian and wanted to share his faith with me. I told him that it was nice that he found something to believe in but that I was raised Jewish and we don't believe in Jesus. He apparently had never talked to a Jew before and became quite animated in explaining how Jesus died for me, etc. Finally I said to him, "My mother always taught me that it doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you are a good person."

Suddenly he grabbed me by the throat and threw me down on a table. I thought he must be joking and I said, "Scott, very funny. Now please let go of my neck." But he didn't let go. He just stared at me with those cold blue eyes. I said, "Scott, enough! Let go!" He just kept staring as if he was in a daze. Then it hit me! He was an anti-Semite and he was going to kill me! All of a sudden a window opened in my mind. I remembered all the stories I heard when I was a kid about Jews getting killed in Poland and Russia where my great grandparents used to live before they fled to come to America. Instantly I realized that it was now happening to me and if don't do something fast I am going to be a statistic. I knew he was too big for me to fight, so I came up with the idea of sticking my fingers into his eyes as hard as I could. And I was about to do it...when, as if he read my mind...he let go, turned around and left the room.

Now, if you don't think I thought that Christian was an "asshole" you have to be nuts! And I felt a lot of anger and even hatred against many Christians after that. But as time passed I realized that most Christians are not like that. And many are really good people. But to this day I know that the stories in the New Testament that make the Jews look bad continually breed new generations of Scott's. And that is why I personally feel it necessary to point out to Christians that there are some very deep problems with that book. It not only led to the Spanish Inquisition, the pogroms, and the also led to Scott, and me almost getting killed in the basement of my college dorm because I had the gaul to say, "All that matters is that you be a good person". And I have never forgot what it felt like on that table.

Post No. 1752
03/27/2008 05:09 PM
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Where to start!

Oh boy, some days off line and - wheeeew ... well, this is how you must have felt when I was writing those long posts.

do jews need antisemitism?
do you need to feel underattack?

I personally know quite a few non-Jews who would instantly answer yes to these 2 Qs. They think Jews have "a chip on their shoulder", because they so often feel attacked. Eh, feel, or are attacked? Or are they just imagining that it's anti-them, but does this or that criticism not have anything to do with them being a Jew? Doesn't it, really?! Aaron, your article The Anti-Semite's Pledge comes to mind. I'd say, often it has (to do with them being a Jew). And, frankly, there's plenty, plenty of reason in past and present to still feel under attack.

Look, I'm a christian, and we're under attack, too. Does that mean that I am personally threatened all the time or made fun of, here, where I live? No. But when it comes down to it, I know our values (which are basically Jewish values, at that) themselves are under attack. Do you know how many christians have been killed just for being christian, back in communist USSR, in communist China, in Indonesia, and in Sudan right now? Steve, I'm sorry, this is coming from me, non-Jew, but don't fall asleep! Enjoy the freedom and acceptance that you say you have right now in Spain, just as I still do mine here in NL (oh yeah, the NL thing), but see the wider picture.

The Christian puts his focus on the "New Testament"
Eh, not the christian. When I went to primary school, in our religious lessons (I was at a protestant school) we read and learned many things from the OT. E.g., we had to know the names of all the prophets and the judges and kings, and in chronological order, plus all the stories; also, each week, we memorised a psalm. We read the whole bible. Also, in our family, at home, we always read a chapter from the Bible after lunch and after dinner. The sermons in church were as often from the OT as from the NT. And when they were about a text in the NT, links were made to the OT. Some of this probably has changed now, but it wasn't at all an exception in those days.

In fact reaing your page my wife thinks jews have brought up to believe nonjews are assholes
Hm. As a non-Jew, I cannot judge whether she's right. However, I do think there are quite some Jews who have a wrong picture of christians, or I should be more specific, who generalise christians and fail to see that there are different types of christians. Also, there are quite a few Jews who are afraid each and every christian they come across will try to convert them. Which is a shame, for 2 reasons:
1, if a christian really thinks he has experienced the most precious thing in his life: accepting that Jesus died for his sins, and he would keep it to himself and not be ready to share it with Jews (who, of all people are God's OWN people), wouldn't that be selfish (apart from if wh,en and how he does share it, I'm just referring to the bare fact)?
2, Jews and Israel as a state nowadays need all support possible, because there are few people left to take up their cause (let's alone name the fight for true reporting in the media, or for accurate history).

Post No. 1751
03/27/2008 04:23 PM
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Von Cello 

Post No. 1750
03/27/2008 04:10 PM
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Bring me up, Scotty are a Jew, I am a Jew...and we are pretty different. I don't think it is fair to say "Jews were brought up this way", or to say "Non-Jews were brought up that way". Everybody has a unique situation in their home, their school, their community, etc.

That being said, If you read the New Testament it is full of stories about how the Jews were indeed close-minded. After all, the Christian belief is that God Himself was standing before them in the body of Jesus Christ, and yet they could not open their minds enough to accept him. The whole portrayal of the Jews in Christianity is that the Jews became corrupt (i.e. "the money changers"), unconcerned with others (i.e. "the Good Samaritan"), blind (i.e. not receiving Jesus' message), violent (i.e. yelling "Crucify him"), and generally ignorant and disgusting (i.e. spitting on Jesus, hitting him, etc.). Am I wrong? Is this not the way the Jews (i.e. "the Pharises) are portrayed in Matthew and elsewhere in the New Testament? And who is the big villain in that book? JUDAS! which basically means JEW! (After all the country that Jesus lived in was called JUDAH.)

So when I said that "it is taught by the other religions, and the atheists, that Jews are close-minded", was that not a fair statement of the facts?

Jews don't think all Christians are "assholes". Look at the guys who sign in here. They are very nice people. But look...Jews were not crazy about the Roman massacres, the Spanish Inquisition, the English and French riots and expulsions, the Russian Pogroms, the Holocaust, and even the calls today for divestment in Israel and all the anti-Zionist propaganda that we hear coming from many Christian groups (not to mention Muslims who are killing Jews to this day).

But aside from all that, we have no problem with them.

Post No. 1749
03/27/2008 02:41 PM
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hit me do i wont feel alone

i live among the nonjews and i can tell you that youve been taught that they haye us more than theyve been taught to hate us

in murcia i know few people who think we are closeminded or wierd crist killers

we marry each other we do business. we eat together

some jews wish that israel were in its beginin days so they could make an exciting aliya and defend israek. They want antisemitism so they can have fuel

In fact reaing your page my wife thinks jews have brought up to believe nonjews are assholes

do jews need antisemitism?
do you need to feel underattack?
Von Cello 

Post No. 1748
03/27/2008 02:07 PM
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Made ya look! Made ya Look!

Well, at least I got you to spend a few minutes studying the Torah!

There are many explanations for why the Torah begins with Bereshis (or Bereshit in Sephardic Hebrew). I'll comment more about this later. But for now I just want to point out how even with the first word of the Torah, you are already thinking and questioning. Now you are wondering..."What does this word REALLY mean?", "Have I been reading a mistranslation all these years?" You see, it MAKES you think!

This is my biggest problem with both the Atheist and the Christian and the Muslim. They have all moved away from really studying the Torah! The atheist ignores the Torah. The Christian puts his focus on the "New Testament" and the Muslim on the "Koran". Yet the Torah and the rest of the Jewish Bible are amazing tools for getting one to open his mind.

The most fascinating thing I found when I studied Orthodox Judaism was that it was a path to having an open mind, yet it is taught by the other religions, and the atheists, that Jews are close-minded. It is an incredible turn of events.


Post No. 1747
03/27/2008 01:04 PM
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Post No. 1746
03/27/2008 01:02 PM
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The first word in the original Hebrew is בְּרֵאשִׁית, transliterated as Bereishit, B'reishit, or Breishis. In Judaism it begins the Torah portion (parshah) Bereishit, which ends at Genesis 5:31. In Hebrew, בְּרֵאשִׁית translates literally as "At/in [the] head [of]," implying "in [the] beginning."
Von Cello 

Post No. 1745
03/27/2008 09:31 AM
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Bye Bull

Okay, good one...Buy Bull. You don't buy the bull. But what about Bye Bull? Meaning goodbye to YOUR bull.

Anyway, Bible is only the English name of a Hebrew book. In Hebrew it is called the Tanach.

"Hey Heinrich, do you want to get a Tan?"


(Get it? Tan? Ach!)

Nevertheless, do you know what the first word of the Torah actually means? Do you care to know? Or do you just want to stick your tongue out in the back of the shul and make jokes?

Post No. 1744
03/27/2008 02:31 AM
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bye bull

I dont buy your bull
I dont buy bull
I dont bible

Bible is 2 books BI
of alot of bull
bi bull
Von Cello 

Post No. 1743
03/26/2008 07:43 PM
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Now hold on there cowboy...

You see...this is exactly the problem that I deal with in my book. The Bible does NOT begin, "In the beginning". Yes, I know it says that in the English versions that were translated by non-Jews, but in the original Hebrew it does not begin with the word that means "in the beginning". That word would be "barashona". But it begins with "bereshis". This word, "bereshis" is not even a real word. It is not used anywhere else. So right away "Houston we have a problem."

Now, it's not really a problem, but what it points out is that the Jewish Bible is not a book like other books. It is not just a story. It is also a very intense compilation of philosophy, science, literature, spiritual insight, prophecy, etc. Indeed, there are pages and pages written about just what the first word actually means.

So this is my problem with most atheists. Sure, you can argue that there is no God, but that does not give you license to misinterpret the Torah. You still can learn a tremendous amount from learning with an Orthodox rabbi, studying the Talmud, going to Jewish classes, etc. Just to understand the Torah is an amazing thing in and of itself, even if there really is no God.

(I just love this stuff!)

Post No. 1742
03/26/2008 01:08 PM
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begin began begun only a saying

the other day a guy asked me where did it all begin? everything has a beginning and so must the universe. I countered that nothing has a begining. he said he came from his mom and she from hers so the universe originally came from a point. I countered that his gramma came from hers and so on but it goes back FOREVER
people feel the need to see a point from which ALL CAME and this point couldnt be self conceived thus thus GOD a self conceived guy.
I believe theres no beginning to anything but that scares folks.
If you accept no beginning to anything that all has always been that always is a long time then theres no need for a self conceived guy to explain the unexplainable point that cane from nowhere.
all rests on 1 assumption. a beginning...
without this ..theres no need for god . the universe is and we are and we are narrowminded to think of beginnings..
and no beginin means no ending..
a book that goes back but theres no page one..unthinkable cause books do have page 1 but thats a part of an even bigger book..

the book starts with a falsehood

Von Cello 

Post No. 1741
03/26/2008 09:49 AM
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Please don't shoot the cello player!

Wasn't there a movie years ago called, "Please Don't Shoot the Piano Player?" I hope people are not offended when I question their faith. I don't mean to hurt anyone. I have taken it upon myself to be a questioner of all things. The very fact that I came up with the idea of Von Cello came out of questioning why the cello had to be a "classical instrument", why it had to be played with a bow, why it couldn't be electrified and rock out like a guitar.

This is how I think. My mother always said, "You don't have to be the best at anything. Just find what you like and be the best that you can be." When I decided I wanted to be a musician I said, "How can I be the best that I can be?" I realized that I had the abilty to play more than one kind of music. I realized that I had the ability to blaze a new path. I felt that by doing that I would be doing the best that I could do...not the best that someone else could do, but what "I" could do. So I broke all the rules and did "my" best.

Now I apply that same logic to everything. Do I have to believe what some older man who is called a rabbi or a priest says? Do I have to believe what a man called Senator or President says?

As I wrote in my song, "You Say So"...

"You tell me your truth but I don't know. Should I buy it just 'cause you say so. You sound positive but I don't know. I'm the type who likes to take it slow."

Think for yourself. That I suppose is a three word summary of Von Cello.
Von Cello 

Post No. 1740
03/26/2008 09:34 AM
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Shul is the Rule

Shul means synagogue in Yiddish. A lot of Jews say shul rather than synagogue because synagogue is a Greek word. Why use a word from a rival culture to describe your place of worship? It would be like a Christian calling a church a mosque, or whatever the Arabic word is for church.

I guess Canarsie is making the point that whoever wrote the Bible could have been a man, perhaps a great philosopher. This is possible, but I find that there are too many prophetic statements that have come true, for it to have been written by an ordinary man. But it takes a lot of time to become familiar with all of the prophecies. But again...this is not the point I am looking at. Let's even say that it was written by a very smart man, still it does give us a lot of insight into the attitudes that we see around the world that are anti-Jewish. Even just as an explanation of that it is still a valuable book.

I know a lot of Christians just have "faith" that Jesus is the Lord and that the New Testament is the "word of God". For many Jews this is an unbelievable situation. Jews wonder how people can possibly believe such things based solely on faith. I guess for a Christian to understand this, imagine if you met a group of people who actually believed the Greek myths. Imagine if today in 2008 there were churches all over the world where people prayed to Zeus. A Christian would probably be amazed that people could believe in that. And that is how many Jews feel about Christians, as well as Muslims.

Then again, many atheists or non religious Jews wonder the same even about religious Jews. They think Judaism, like Christianity, is essentially a myth. I think this is where Canarsie is coming from. I take the position that Judaism does have proof...not proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, but enough evidence to come to belief through logic and reason. That is why my book is called, "Beyond Faith". It argues that humanity must move beyond faith and use reason in all things, including religion. I even argue that atheists rely a lot on faith too for their "beliefs". The agnostic, the one who says, "I don't know" is the one with whom I have no argument. To him I say, "Fine. Now go learn!"


Post No. 1739
03/26/2008 03:20 AM
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if the shul fits
shoe or shul?

Post No. 1738
03/26/2008 02:19 AM
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or maybe by a simple filosofer
no god no alien no futurama
remember its not the yearr 2008 but maybe 5 0r 6 thousand years and more with man thinkin about life

the problem is if you believe in god it gives you excuses to hurt others and no real guide in life.
an aethiest has reason and ethics of goodwill.a guide in life..

if the shul fits
Von Cello 

Post No. 1737
03/25/2008 10:40 PM
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No News is Bad News

I was just watching a news show about Iraq...well...actually about how Iraq is not in the news anymore. The reporter was saying that one of the jobs of the soldiers now is to go around and pay death benefits to former enemies who are getting killed manning check points for the US. The soldiers are getting frustrated and confused. One minute someone is your enemy, the next minute your ally.

In a way, it serves them right. Isn't it great to go to battle and kill people feeling totally justified that you are the good guy and they are the bad guy? But how does it feel when your government now sends you in to make nice to those who were your enemy just a few months ago? Maybe they never were your enemy. Maybe they still are, but your government is playing politics. Maybe, just maybe, the whole war is just a way for very rich people to get richer and you, the soldier, are realizing that you have been a pawn in a game you don't understand.

Your job was to kill people...but you thought you were doing it for a good cause. But what is the cause now? Now you are all confused, and yet tomorrow you may be instructed to kill some more people. Maybe the truly brave people are the ones who don't kill other people. Maybe the truly brave ones are the ones who are not afraid to live their lives without following orders.

I say that no news is bad news because the fact that we don't even hear about the war any more means that those who are profiteering off of it are basically free to delay and delay and keep the money flowing for as long as they can get away with it. And what better way than to kill people one day, pay them off the next, and the kill them the third day. It doesn't matter either long as the war never ends!
Von Cello 

Post No. 1736
03/25/2008 05:16 PM
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You're full of spit!

You see, this is the crux of the matter. (Pun intended.) You have churches all over the world telling non-Jews stories that make the Jews look really bad. In fact, the stories make the Jews look like evil people that you could feel justified in hating. This is a really big problem, and has led to a lot of the anti-Semitism we see in the world. The same thing happens in the Muslim world. They also spread stories that make the Jews look bad with the same results: hatred of Jews. Of course, most Jews (and more and more Gentiles) reject these stories as propaganda from enemies, but unfortunately, many religious people accept this all as "the word of the Lord", even though there is no proof at all (and in fact, there is much proof to show that the Jews were not the way they are depicted in these stories).

It's really weird that we live in a world where the people who brought us the Ten Commandments and sayings like, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", are demonized by two of the largest religions in the world. I deal with this subject in my book and show how the Bible actually predicts this situation. For instance, in the very early days of Judaism, Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. They were fighting over their inheritance which included the land of Israel. Then Isaac has two sons, twins, who were fighting even in the womb (Esau and Jacob). They also fight over their fathers inheritance.

Jewish teachings tell us that Ishmael was the ancestor of the Arabs (who became the Muslims) and Esau was the ancestor of the Romans (who became the European Christians). Then the Rabbis look deeply into the story line to show how a lot of what goes on between these groups even today was predicted by the stories. (In other words, when you see two of these characters interacting, it is all symbolic of how their descendants will interact.) This explains how you have a world where this tiny tribe of Israel is the focus of hatred by a large percentage of the billions of people on the earth.

Here is where I think many atheists miss the point. We can discuss whether or not God exists for ever, but there is a lot more in Bible that relates to the world as it is, that deserves discussion. It could very well be that whoever wrote the Bible was not God, but a person who came back from the future, or some type of alien or advanced being, or group of beings. In any case, I think it is narrow minded to assume that their are no hidden meanings behind what is written in this prominent book.

As for me, I always loved the way the Beatles hid all kinds of clues in their albums. You could play songs backwards and hear things. You could look at the pictures and see Paul wearing a black rose, or walking barefoot in the street, and these would be clues that he was actually dead. (Of course, this was the Beatles goofing on the world.) But what I love about the Bible is that it is like the ultimate Beatle album. It is just chock full of clues about everything from politics to space aliens. For instance, I have recently heard an interpretation that the snake in the garden (Satan) was symbolic of an advanced civilization that basically gave ancient man the knowledge that we see in ancient Egypt and Greece. Therefore, "God" would be either the concept of preserving the pure genetic lines of the humans, as opposed to those who were impregnated by the aliens represented by the snake...or He could represent another group of aliens. Of course, when you get into this stuff it gets hard to prove, but I did hear one presentation that made a good case using all kinds of ancient mythology to show that all of it is about a time thousands of years ago when aliens came to this planet and began what we call history.


Post No. 1735
03/25/2008 02:23 PM
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spit happens

i think those stories make jews look good.a jew saw that jc was starving and dehidrated and gave him some spit.thats chutspa!! to go right up there and wen the guard was lookin away to break the law of not hekping jc and give him a lil liquid.
i do however think stories about jews taking advantage when others are down are made up and are so to make jews look bad.
Von Cello 

Post No. 1734
03/25/2008 01:37 PM
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Now I remember, it was Yeshua. (Some Jews call him Yashka as a nickname.) But seems that you don't feel that there is any proof that anything written about Jesus is true. Therefore, you seem to be saying that you don't buy the portrait of the Jews from Matthew's book. Do you agree that the stories about the Jews spitting on Jesus, etc. were written by people who made them up to make the Jews look bad?
Von Cello 

Post No. 1733
03/25/2008 11:12 AM
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That Crazy Jesus Show

There is a show on American TV called, "That Crazy 70's Show". It sounds like you want to see a show called, "That Crazy Jesus Show". Of course, if you pronounce it the Spanish we it could be a show about a Puerto Rican.

For whatever it's worth, did you ever notice that the Spanish pronounciation of Jesus sounds like "Hey Zeus!" I wonder how Jesus is pronounced in Greek. In Hebrew his name was...hmmm...I think it was Yashka.

That Crazy Yashka Show?
Sounds like something from the Yiddish Theatre circa 1940.

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