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canarsie 

Post No. 2379
01/08/2009 04:30 PM
  
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for every jew who believes there are 20000 idiots like me..we never studied this book but you never studied the koran or other religious books AS MUCH AS THIS BOOK> and by a small chance it happens to be YOUR PEOPLES BOOK..
i prefer to question and see if the answer is clear.. i read in a book that predicted long ago a modern occurance and i knoe in my heart its cooincidence or manipulation.. i still think that blacks too have been scattered everywhere on earth. chinese too.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2378
01/08/2009 08:59 AM
  
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Sorry

Canarsie: they were split up into provinces each had a king and they came together not too long ago//divided and moved aroubd the world to one day come together is italian..in those days aroubd the world meant europe..

Split up into provinces is not the same as exiled off their land.

Europe is not the world. The Jews were scattered way beyond Europe. There are Jews in China, India, Africa, everywhere.

All you did was prove that you cannot back up your cliam. You also proved that you refuse to look at the facts in an objective manner. You also proved that you refuse to give credit where credit is due. You also proved you are stubborn. You also proved you are a scoffer. You also proved you are an idiot!

canarsie 

Post No. 2377
01/08/2009 07:59 AM
  
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first there were no italians They were a group of lil provinces and came together as italy not too long ago...they were split up into provinces each had a king and they came together not too long ago//divided and moved aroubd the world to one day come together is italian..in those days aroubd the world meant europe..

dodgeball anyone??

ps while you are here jews are losing the pr battle in gaza why not focus on that??
get involved youtube and promote our guys.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2376
01/08/2009 07:51 AM
  
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Dead

It wasn't the Dead Sea either. Do your homework.

What I proved was that the prophecy would not work for the Italians or Greeks. Only for the Jews.

Can you show how they would apply to the Italians or Greeks? There are ten that I listed. Let's see if you can back up your claim. Go one by one and show how they could apply. If not, admit that they don't.

canarsie 

Post No. 2375
01/08/2009 07:33 AM
  
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dead sea i meant to write

and you meant to write YOU PROVED?
aaron your proof is beuatiful logical and even mystical but not a proof of anything..a book predicted something in a language that we dont know. it predicted 100000things that are clear and coded.thnigs happened since then that we dont knoew..was the wall rebuilt? are the jews in israel? new jersey is not even close!!
upstate ny niether.
the proof must meet the proofs of science not mystic pizza

the tal mood but the cow went home
Von Cello 

Post No. 2374
01/08/2009 06:54 AM
  
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B.S.

Now I know you're making this up, unless you spole to people who know nothing. The waterway that the Jews crossed was not the Red Sea.

Anyway, I proved that the prophecies could not apply to anyone but the Jews. Certainly if such prophecies were made for the Italians or Greeks they would not have come true. If you are objective you should be able to admit this.
canarsie 

Post No. 2373
01/08/2009 12:46 AM
  
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maybe they are not amazing nor unique..
i think the worlds not givin a damn about this book is not based on antisemitism but on not being amazed.

i read that the red sea opened for moses to lead the jews out then wen i lived there the jews told me it was fantasy maybe a lie and the jews used boats..even the jews who live today on that sea thought it was malarkey from canarsie
Von Cello 

Post No. 2372
01/07/2009 09:43 PM
  
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I'll Save You Time

1. It said the Italians would be exiled by a neighbor - never happened

2. It said they would return in 70 years - never happened

3. It said there would be another exile from a people from afar - never happened

4. It said during that exile the Italians would be scattered around the world - never happened, the vast majority have always lived in Italy

5. It said during that exile the Italians would suffer anti-Italianism - never happened, there is no worldwide phenomenon of Italian hating

6. It said during that exile the Italians would remain a people despite all the problems - never happened, there is no sense among Italians of exile when they leave Italy, those who leave do so by choice, they generally don't plan to ever return and they more or less assimilate into whatever country they go to

7. It said during that exile the land of Italy would be barren - never happened, Italy never became a desert

8. It said the Italians would return - never happened, there has never been a mass migration of Italians back to Italy

9. It said at that time the desert would bloom - never happened, Italy was always fertile, Israel became fertile again when the Jews returned in large numbers

10. It said at that time the word of the Lord would spread thorughout the world - never happened, the Italians do not have a book like the Bible that has spread around the world. Their book is the Bible, which was written by Jews.

So, as you can see, your comment that half of these prophecies apply to the Italians is false. Why can't you just admit that the Jewish prophecies are unique and amazing?
Von Cello 

Post No. 2371
01/07/2009 05:47 PM
  
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Like I said...

Like I said, you can always find a way of pulling something down. But you curiously find a way to not answer my questions.

You said that half of those prophecies apply to the Italians and Greeks. Please tell me which ones.

And if half don't apply to the Italians and Greeks, would you acknowledge that those half are remarkable?
canarsie 

Post No. 2370
01/07/2009 05:32 PM
  
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it is beauty before me but not scientific..you talk of a nothing wall that stands ,so what? if it moc=ved that would be good
jews who return to israel..you and i didnt. most didnt.

no predictions here very narrow very improboble..

beauty and the beast
Von Cello 

Post No. 2369
01/07/2009 04:16 PM
  
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Getting Silly

Now you're getting silly.

Tell me which of those prophecies came true for the Italians and Greeks.

As to "return" ... you can debate what a return would look like, but you can't debate that a very large number of Jews have returned to Israel from around the world and that Israel returned to Jewish rule.

You remind me of the type of husband who, when his wife spends the whole day dressing up to go out with him, he comes home and says, "Your lipstick is smudged." Yes, you can always find a way to pull something down rather than see the beauty before you.
canarsie 

Post No. 2368
01/07/2009 03:45 PM
  
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half of those came true predictiona came true for italians greeks as well and the other half never happened ,,,bloom?
israel is a desert and the jews have yet to return there.most live elsewhere and i know youll say its a jewish country but thee word is return not donate
Von Cello 

Post No. 2367
01/07/2009 10:32 AM
  
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Who is like unto You?

Canarsie: all it said has come true? nothing disproven?
you said it made 1000s of predictions many coded and now you say all came true.


Forget the "code". I'm talking about predictiions that are made clearly in the text. From what I have studied, there is not one of them that was disproven. For example:

1. It said the Jews would be exiled from Israel by a neighbor - and that happened with the Babylonians

2. It said they would return in 70 years - and that happened because the Persians took over Babyon and their king let the Jews go back

3. It said there would be another exile from a people from afar - that happened with the Romans

4. It said during that exile the Jews would be scattered around the world - that happened

5. It said during that exile the Jews would suffer anti-Semitism - that happened

6. It said during that exile the Jews would remain a people despite all the problems - that happened

7. It said during that exile the land of Israel would be barren - that happened

8. It said the Jews would return - that happened in 1948

9. It said at that time the desert would bloom - that happened

10. It said at that time the word of the Lord would spread thorughout the world - what do you know? the computer came along at just that time, which led to the internet, which is spreading the word all around the world!

All of these prophecies were extremely unlikely to come true. Yet all of them came true! It says in one of the prayers for the Haftorah, "The Lord is trustworthy. Not one of these will come back unfulfilled."

Whether or not you believe in God, any unbiased observer would have to admit that the track record here is absolutely astonishing. Certainly there is nothing like this anywhere else. And that right there makes it astonishing.

That is why the prayers say, "Who is like unto you Lord?" Who else predicts such unlikely events, states them clearly in a book for all to see, and they all come true?
canarsie 

Post No. 2366
01/07/2009 08:12 AM
  
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crystalmud ball

all it said has come true? nothing disproven?
you said it made 1000s of predictions many coded and now you say all came true.

maybe you mean to say that everything that happens can be related to some coded prediction in the book..
this wall u say that was never rebuilt i see on internet some think it was half destroyed and rbuilt others say it was destroyed and rebuilt most say it was never destroyed.
but all seems possible. no predictions just possibilities.

this book doesnt predict anything relevant.that everyday people would hear and say WOW!!! thats amazing..the best university thinkers even einsteindidnt follow it..
i never studied IT but listen to you I listen to them..More them than you!!
but go on...
Von Cello 

Post No. 2365
01/06/2009 06:59 PM
  
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Much Better!

Okay, now you are finally making some good arguments! But what took you so long? I am much more excited to deal with good points rather than someone just grasping at straws.

Canarsie: if the wall hadnt made it would you not believe in this book?would u say the book is boloney?

YES!!! If the wall hadn't made it that would clearly be evidence that the book is "crap" as you once said. But, I'm telling you, this book is amazing. Almost every prophecy in it has been fulfilled and nothing it said has been disproven!

the wall survived cause it survived and the other 10000predictions never came true ..

Why such a negative attitude! The only ones that haven't come true are the ones about the future that we haven't gotten to yet. For instance, the messiah hasn't come yet. But you are totally wrong to think that most didn't come true. For instance, it said that when the Jews returned to Israel, the desert would bloom. You have been to Israel. You saw how they turned desert into farm land! This did not happen when the Arabs controlled the land. But when the Jews returned to power, yes, the desert bloomed!

Canarsie: jews scattered?
everybodies scattered today.italians greeks polish..not a good prediction.
it didnt happen only to the jews.


Today maybe. But before the Jews returned to Israel how many people were scattered? Today there are airplanes and all kinds of globalization. But the Jews were scattered over a thousand years ago when most other people never travelled more than a few miles from home. Also, no other people had the whole country scattered. Sure there are some Italians here and there, but MOST are in Italy. The Jews had MOST of their people scattered. And the question also arises, how scattered? There are Jews in almost every country in the world. And we are only a few million people! This is a very rare phenomenon, and it was PREDICTED! No other nation has a book about itself that made such a prediction. And no other group was scattered so completely, to so many places, starting so many centuries ago.

It was also predicted that the Jews would have to keep moving from place to place. No other group of people was EXPELLED from so many countries! There were around a hundred of those! Here you can't even site the Italians, Polish, or Greeks!

and how do you know if this wall was rebuilt? maybe 600 yrs ago it was.

You see, now you're thinking. That is a good point. Before accepting this prophecy totally, one should investigate that. But if it was found that it was not rebuilt, would you then concede?

did it predict that jews would return to israel? that never came true cause most live outside .jews never completely left israel never.most jews prefer to live in los angeles brooklyn not israel so theres no truth to a return.

This is another good point. But what if the return is just beginning? Who said it all had to happen within a few years, or even a few decades? This is what I mean when I say some things haven't come true ... yet. Some things appear to be in motion, but it may take the actual appearance of the messiah to convince the hold outs among the Jews to return.

Look, I don't want to live in Israel now. But if the messiah came, and I was convinced that he really was the messiah (more accurately the moshiach), yes, I would return! But obviously we are not at the "end of time" yet. So the story is still playing out. Nevertheless, so much of what the Torah said would happen has come true that to me, it is actually the logical and rational choice to keep in mind that the rest of what it said may also come true.

It's not clear "beyond the shadow of a doubt". That is where free choice comes in. Confronted with the Torah prophecies one can scoff, or become a true believer, or be impressed and wait for more evidence as the plot unfolds. You seem to be in the first camp. I'm in the last.
canarsie 

Post No. 2364
01/06/2009 04:45 PM
  
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if the wall hadnt made it would you not believe in this book?would u say the book is boloney?
the wall survived cause it survived and the other 10000predictions never came true ..if not a wall then a house a tree .jews scattered?
everybodies scattered today.italians greeks polish..not a good prediction.
it didnt happen only to the jews.
and how do you know if this wall was rebuilt? maybe 600 yrs ago it was.

doesnt sound great..

you make it like indiana jones and the book of knowledge..its jus a book with alot alot of predictions big and small.
did it predict that jews would return to israel? that never came true cause most live outside .jews never completely left israel never.most jews prefer to live in los angeles brooklyn not israel so theres no truth to a return. the meaning of the book was jews all would rejoice in a return to their land and live there, not send a check get laid by the wife of a guy doing his military service and go home
Von Cello 

Post No. 2363
01/06/2009 04:05 PM
  
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Making light of the heavy

Canarsie wrote: and i do think that the waall wasnt destroyed cause they simply didnt want to destroy it thats all..it has no need for supernatural explanation,

To me, your explanation that "they simply didn't want to destroy it" is insufficient. Why would they not want to destroy it? If you were going to destroy the greatest symbol of your enemy, why would you "not want" to destroy one wall?

But it goes deeper. Do you know that Jerusalem was destroyed at least a dozen times? There were countless wars there even after the Romans first destroyed the Temple, except for the wall that the rabbis predicted would not be destroyed. Did all of those people who destroyed Jerusalem also "simply not want to destroy" that particular wall?

I think you are choosing to make light of something that is truly extraordinary. But here's the clinker: there are hundreds of prophecies like this that are extremely unlikely to come true, yet have!

It was predicted in the Torah that the Jews would be scattered "to the four corners of the earth". How likely was that? Had you made that prediction thousands of years ago about ANY other group of people you would have been proven wrong. The Torah said it would happen ONLY to the Jews and it did indeed happen ONLY to the Jews!

Now, you can say that the Jews scattered themselves on purpose so the prophecy could come true. But that seems highly unlikely. Did you move to Spain to make the Torah prophecy come true? Most of the movements of the Jews happened due to persecution. And by the way, constant persecution during their exile was also predicted!

If you were to read my book, or some other book that deals with this, and really examine the unusually large amount of these prophecies that have been fulfilled, you would see how amazing it is. Yes, you can say one is a coincidence, two are a coincidence, but when you start to find ten, twenty, thirty, a hundred, of these "coincidences" it becomes less and less rational to ascribe these to chance.

Then who is the real believer in blind faith, the Jew or the Atheist.

As for Gaza ... what can I say that hasn't been said somewhere else? I find our debate much more interesting.
canarsie 

Post No. 2362
01/06/2009 02:43 PM
  
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israel enters gaza and here in murcia spain im the man.. as pres of murcias j community of 430members we are on the ball. are you too having to defend israel? i kno in the usa theres alot of antiisral now with obama in and bush out.
the idf has organized a fact forum to help jews everywhere be ready with answers that are sweet short to the point and convincing.try out helpuswin.com

no book of predictions on this though.and i do think that the waall wasnt destroyed cause they simply didnt want to destroy it thats all..it has no need for supernatural explanation .if it had been destroyed it would be now nothing but a book predicts many thhings and idf by cjance some come true its no miracle.

anyway lets get into gaza

machmama to aaron "israel started this war by wrongly killing innocent arabs"

aaron to machmama
Von Cello 

Post No. 2361
01/06/2009 01:02 PM
  
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Big Deal Indeed

Canarsie: a wall stands against all bombs is godlike.but its not destroyed is no big deal.

If a wall standing against a bomb is godlike...how much more godlike is it if it stands against the Roman Empire! It is a big deal that this one wall stood. Don't you think if the Romans wanted to destroy the Temple they would have knocked all the walls down? Why leave one? And why leave THAT one? They could have left another one and the prophecy would not have come true.

The thing that is a big deal about this is that it was predicted! How in the world did the rabbis know that only the Western Wall would remain?

Suppose you wanted to make a prediction that the White House will be destroyed but the western wing will survive. Suppose 2,000 years goes by. What chance do you think you would have that your prediction would come true? How about a snowball's chance in hell?

So either the rabbis were very, very, very luckly guessers, or they KNEW the future. Those are the only two options. You can say that is no big deal to you, but it is a big deal to me and to a lot of other people.

At lesat Judaism has these strange prophecies and their fulifillment that provides evidence of something extraordinary. Most other religions have nothing like this. One is expected to believe solely on faith. Judaism is unique in the way it has prophecies with a less than 0% of coming true, yet time and time again, against all odds, they do come true.

At the very least this makes it rational to believe in Judaism, whereas the faith-based relgion require an irrational leap of fatih to be accepted.

Again, this obviously doens't mean much to you, but it does to me and many other Jews, and even non-Jews who really look into this phenomenon.

canarsie 

Post No. 2360
01/06/2009 11:55 AM
  
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lets make a big deal

again you point out only the things that were predicted and have happened and could be probble not so improbble but never talk of the things that were predicted but never happened/ a wall stands against all bombs is godlike.but its not destroyed is no big deal..

ps in thr local murcia newsppr im in a paralel basttle defending israel in its gaza move to defend itself...youre keepin me sharp and honest
Von Cello 

Post No. 2359
01/06/2009 08:53 AM
  
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Zooming in

Okay, let's zoom in on the Western Wall. The Song of Songs had a sentence that the rabbis in the Talmud said meant that the Western Wall would never be destroyed. Then the Jews were kicked out of Israel by the Romans.

So...

Who are the participants?
From about the year 70 C.E. the Jews lost control of Israel. They were evicted by the Romans and the Romans took control. They destroyed most of the Temple but for some reason left the Western Wall standing. Then about a thosand years later the Muslims took control. They had 1,000 years to destroy the Western Wall but didn't.

How did they participate?
The Jews were out of the picture for 2,000 years during which the participants were the Romans and the Muslims, both mortal enemies of the Jews. They, not the Jews, left the Western Wall standing.

Now, I ask you, why would the enemies of the Jews, those who said the Jewish books were lying, allow this wall to stand that actually make a Jewish prophecy come true?

I would say that it would have been in their interest to knock down the wall to prove the prophecy false. I think in all likelihood they didn't read the Talmud and didn't know about this prophecy. Still the question is why would they destroy all the other walls but leave this one standing? You must admit this is very odd.

Clearly the Jews had absolutely no control over the actions of the Romans and the Muslims. So your comment that "the participants" made this prophecy come true on purpose does not seem possible. Rather this is either an amazing coincidence or a sign that the rabbis had access to information about the future (which I think is quite possible).
canarsie 

Post No. 2358
01/06/2009 03:13 AM
  
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a wall will be the only 1 left in 200 yrs .so anyone intersted in this wall is a participant..its a wall thats important to a group of people

even a damn wall is really of significance to a people like the jews,its wailing holy symbolic..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2357
01/05/2009 07:21 PM
  
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Zooming in

Please just answer the questions. I said:

As to your claim that "the participants participated" -

Who are the participants?

And how did they participate?
canarsie 

Post No. 2356
01/05/2009 05:21 PM
  
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scooter pies will fly,, now thats a prediction

in the usa the mass doesnt give a shit about god nor believe in it. at vote time there are no aethiests.how can u sit there and really say that a prediction came true that humans could control?
tell us that the book predicted the moon will turn orange and if it happens ill believe you .but anything that we know about before is off limits.impossible things that happen make believers but these things that you say are so so possible to make happen or to happen in time
houdini would enter now and .....
Von Cello 

Post No. 2355
01/05/2009 04:59 PM
  
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Zooming in

Canarsie: wrong most of them are nonpracticing dont believe in god They think the bible is crap.

Have you interviewed a billion Christians? Maybe a lot of the Europeans are Christian in name only but that is not true of the U.S., not to mention South America and Africa.

Canarsie: As for a prediction coming true 3000 yrs after ,as the year approached the participants participated,thats all.

I never said the exile had to end at a certain time. So your point that "the year approached" is invalid. No year approached, it could have happened, or not happened, at any time.

As to your claim that "the participants participated" -

Who are the participants?

And how did they participate?

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