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Von Cello 

Post No. 2429
01/12/2009 05:08 PM
  
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So true ...

Read it, and it is right on. Here's the end:

As long as we continue to subsidize Gaza's extreme demographic armament, young Palestinians will likely continue killing their brothers or neighbors. And yet, despite claiming that it wants to bring peace to the region, the West continues to make the population explosion in Gaza worse every year. By generously supporting UNRWA's budget, the West assists a rate of population increase that is 10 times higher than in their own countries. Much is being said about Iran waging a proxy war against Israel by supporting Hezbollah and Hamas. One may argue that by fueling Gaza's untenable population explosion, the West unintentionally finances a war by proxy against the Jews of Israel.

If we seriously want to avoid another generation of war in Gaza, we must have the courage to tell the Gazans that they will have to start looking after their children themselves, without UNRWA's help. This would force Palestinians to focus on building an economy instead of freeing them up to wage war. Of course, every baby lured into the world by our money up to now would still have our assistance.

If we make this urgently needed reform, then by at least 2025 many boys in Gaza -- like in Algeria -- would enter puberty as only sons. They would be able to look forward to a more secure future in a less violent society.

If the West prefers calm around Gaza even before 2025, it may consider offering immigration to those young Palestinians only born because of the West's well-meant but cruelly misguided aid. In the decades to come, North America and Europe will have to take in tens of millions of immigrants anyway to slow the aging of their populations. If, say, 200,000 of them are taken from the 360,000 boys coming of age in Gaza in the next 15 years, that would be a negligible move for the big democracies but a quantum leap for peace in the Near East.

Many of Gaza's young -- like in much of the Muslim world -- dream of leaving anyway. Who would not want to get out of that strip of land but the international NGOs and social workers whose careers depend on perpetuating Gaza's misery?
LN_Cello 

Post No. 2428
01/12/2009 04:55 PM
  
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Von Cello wrote: Yes, Hilter was stopped by the Allies who banded together and defeated him, but if you know the history you would know that the victory of the Allies was far from certain.

Indeed, a.o. the fact that he lost precious time in expecting and preparing for (against his advisers) the Allied attack of D-Day 1944 to happen at another place, helped us to win. But it was against maybe not all, but quite a few odds.

Hate to be OT, but this is a very good read and could help when needed to clarify how Gaza got to what it is: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123171179743471961.html?mod=djemEditorialPage#articleTabs%3Darticle

except for the last but one paragraph.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2427
01/12/2009 04:41 PM
  
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Misunderstanding the concept of God

"God helps those who help themselves."

The Jewish concept of God is not some guy in the sky that does everything for you. Even when the Jews were in the desert they constantly had to struggle. The main promise God makes in the Bible to the Jews is that they will survive and eventually be brought back into their land. But God never said He would carry them back on angels' wings. Even when they got Israel the first time they had to fight and many Jews had to die. So there were hardships, but in the end the Jews survived and entered the "promised land".

Same thing now. The Jews have to fight for the land, but in the end, at least so far, things have gone remarkably according to the plan laid out in the Torah.

And if your point is that "money and brians" helps the Jews survive, who gave them their brains? And who gave them their money? One of the main reasons the Jewish community in general (not all) does well financially is because Jews were persecuted and forced to live all over the world. This made the HAVE to get involved with banking, loans, investing, international trade. So here again, one can see the hand of God.

God in the Bible tells the Jews that they will be tested and they will be purified like iron in a fire. The Torah tells Jews they will suffer, they will have to fight, they will teeter on the brink of disaster, but God says, "I swear by My holy Name" that you will survive throughout time and "see My salvation".

It sounds unbelievable, and yet .... just look at the reality. The Jews did suffer, that made them smarter and taught them how to succeed in the world, and they are still here!
canarsie 

Post No. 2426
01/12/2009 03:28 PM
  
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in the case of israel its simply money.
a lobby with gelt and brains..if god existed israel wouldnt have any guns..it would depr=end on the bookand god..it all comes odwn to people fearing capture if they break the fairly written law,,if you feel u can get away with it then many do it,and go uncaught while few are caught..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2425
01/12/2009 02:59 PM
  
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The bigger they are...

If your point is that a weaker one wins by getting an even stronger one on his side, that may be true, but who put that stronger one there? For instance, in the story of Chanukah, the Jews were fighting against the much larger Syrian Greeks. It looked like the Jews were going to loose but just then a bigger power attacked the Syrians and the Jews won! There was no lobbying, it was just "fate" or "the hand of God" that made it happen.

Perhaps it was coincidence, but in the case of the Jews the coincidences just keep coming and comiing. Same thiing happened when the Babylonians exiled the Jews. Jeremiah said they'd be back in 70 years and lo and behold the Persians come in and cruch Babylon!

Same thing happened in modern times. The Nazis thought they'd put an end to the Jews, but lo and behold the U.S. comes in and crushes the Nazis. Next thing you know the Jews are back again!

Maybe more important than "might" is intelligence, moral behavior, and even luck. But any unbiased observer would be amazed at how all these situations happened that led to the survival of the Jews.

King David in the Psalms said something like, "We escaped like a bird from a trap. We escaped and the trap caught our enemy. Who is like the Lord our God?"

And heres' the amazing part, the Psalms were written BEFORE the Babylonians, the Romans, the Syrians, and the Nazis.

Was David just lucky that this happened over and over again to his people? You may say yes, but it does not strike me as a logical answer. If this happened to the Jews, why doesn't it happen to everyone? Or even better, why doesn't it happen to anyone? What other nation has been attacked so many times by so many much larger nations and survived time and again while their attackers have fallen?

You, Canarsie, may find this meaningless, but there are a lot of people, including non-Jews who have taken note of this.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2424
01/12/2009 01:21 PM
  
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King of De Nile

Here you go again. When you can't find a good response to a point you make a joke or change the subject. Why can't you just agree that a good point has been made, or if you have a better answer, make a counter point?

The pont is that history shows that the strong do not always win. In fact, the history of the Jews shows that a tiny but moral nation has been able to outlive all of the giants that tried with all their might to destroy it.

By the way, Jesus was also a believer that morality was stronger than might. By allowing himself to be killed he became much more famous and had a much stronger influence on the world than it would have been had he fought back. The one who killed him, Pilae, was a mightly Roman general. Who follows him today? But look at how many followers Jesus has!
canarsie 

Post No. 2423
01/12/2009 01:08 PM
  
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david beat goliath by making a powerful lobby in goliathes cousins house
Von Cello 

Post No. 2422
01/12/2009 01:06 PM
  
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What can we learn from David and Goliath?

Yes, Hilter was stopped by the Allies who banded together and defeated him, but if you know the history you would know that the victory of the Allies was far from certain. For instance, Hitler was working on the atom bomb. In fact, it was one of his scientists who gave the U.S. the plans. So if the timing was a little different Hitler would have had the A bomb and he probably would have won. Then all the Jews in the world would have been rounded up and killed.

But that did not happen!

Who was responsible for the timinig? It certainly had nothing to do with might.

The fact is, moral nations seem to survive and evil nations or movements seem to fall. Yes, evil does have the ablilty to last for a while, but good always seems to triumph. The Babylonians fell, the Romans fell, the Nazis fell, the USSR fell. All of these movements are essentially gone today. Some of the people or their decendents remain, but the group is gone, the ideology is gone or discredited. Yet the tiny nation of Jews is still here. The group is still intact, the ideology is exactly the same after thousands of years.

So your thesis that might makes right and the most powerful deserves to be the king, actually doesn't seem to work in this world. In fact, the nation most responsible for promoting the concept of morality has outlived all the giants.

David beat Goliath, and he does it again and again!

canarsie 

Post No. 2421
01/12/2009 10:25 AM
  
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nazis were defeated by might..the good ol usa..and hitler was an idiot who was stopped by a bigger bad boy ,,the usa..
god doesnt exist so how else could we explain hitlers defeat??
LN_Cello 

Post No. 2420
01/12/2009 09:41 AM
  
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Of the fittest?

Canarsie, you must be kidding! If u r right, then please explain just how did Israel survive in '67? And take what happened at the Syrian front in '73 - how?

And ... and ... why?

Or am I misunderstanding what u r trying to say?

(btwcouldipersuadeyoutostartusingcapitals?)
Von Cello 

Post No. 2419
01/12/2009 08:30 AM
  
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Jewish vs. Nazi Morality

its the one who has the most force and that one should be the king.

I hope you realize that this is exactly what Hitler said. You really don't understand Jewish morality, do you?

Think about this: if might makes right, then how come the Nazis were defeated. And if the one with the most force should be king, how did the powerless Jews survive, and even regain control of their ancient homeland without lifting a sword?

Did you ever consider that the one most "fit" to survive could be the one with the highest morals?
canarsie 

Post No. 2418
01/12/2009 08:04 AM
  
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godless great people and godfearing bad people by me

its the one who has the most force and that one should be the king.if god gave us israel then if another religion says its theirs can they go to war for it and could israel defend itself and if israel won would it be survival of the fittest?

god is a jerk if he created this world and since god is never a jerk there is no god.the proof is in the scooterpie i just threw at your table in the cafeteria..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2417
01/12/2009 07:53 AM
  
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Think

Canarise, you say survival of the fittest is the way of the world. How do you define the fittest? Is it the one who can kick everyone else's ass? Or is it the one who is the most moral?
LN_Cello 

Post No. 2416
01/12/2009 06:00 AM
  
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Until they love their children more

than they hate us (said Golda Meir) ... sadly will still take a looooooon time:

Hamas Booby Trapped School and Zoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU
canarsie 

Post No. 2415
01/12/2009 01:05 AM
  
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yes survival of the fittest..When you say jews have a god gvn right to israel u scare me and many israelis and american jews cause if god didnt exist youd say give israel away and we are bk in the oven.no thanks..i think we treat others as we want to be treated and accrdn to u=our needs..id personally lov to see 3 or 5 jewish countries..israel. .2 more in s america 2 more in europe

why not?? there are catholic countries all over..my right to exist and live is my heart..

wat right do u have to be now readin this with central heat while millions are starving to death elsewhere?are they lazy? or were they born into it??
wat right do we have to watch DR HOUSE while others are in prison for nothing with no trial..RIGHTS?? ill take my friends anyday over rights
Von Cello 

Post No. 2414
01/11/2009 09:55 PM
  
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Can you find my book on this page?

http://www.manhattanarts.com/Gallery/DavidTobey.htm


Von Cello 

Post No. 2413
01/11/2009 09:38 PM
  
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Who said strings were not hot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu_aZvUZwNI&feature=related

Ouch!
Von Cello 

Post No. 2412
01/11/2009 04:25 PM
  
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A brave Muslim woman speaks out

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak
Von Cello 

Post No. 2411
01/11/2009 02:21 PM
  
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Survival of the Fittest

You know, Hitler believed in Darwin's idea of "Survival of the Fittest". You seem to believe the same. In fact, Hitler accused the Jews of going against the God of nature by demanding that humanity follow laws of morality and conscience. In fact, he said it was "Jewish impudence" to insist that there was such a thing as the conscience. He felt that might made right and therefore he set about to create a "master race".

Do you agree with Hitler?
canarsie 

Post No. 2410
01/11/2009 02:15 PM
  
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its about who can kick whos ass.. simple..
thats why we have laws..not to protect the other guy from us but to protect us from the bigger ass kicker..if you felt you were the biggest ass kicker youd say f/'k law.. thats where we get dictators ..after defeating dictators people form democracy but then again within the democracy they try to rob grab kill and become powerful..
reality hurts i know but its reality,,we are animals and law is to protect the weak from the strong.i love law .
Von Cello 

Post No. 2409
01/11/2009 02:10 PM
  
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HUH?

you cant just kick a guy take his money and run,thats not right unless you need the money and he is related to the guy who took yours..

I don't even know how to respond to this. Could you give as an example the situation in Israel? How can we determine who should control the land of Israel? Is it based on whoever has the might at any particular moment? If so, then if the Arabs can get stronger in the future, would you agree that they should get the land? Is it all really all about who can kick who's ass? Or is there some better way to make a determination?
canarsie 

Post No. 2408
01/11/2009 01:53 PM
  
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if you write the law then you have the right..but theres no higher authority than the guy who has the power the force to enfoce the law..
you make a law and yyou enforce it ITS LAW..there is right and wrong based on ethics and treating others as you want to be treated but theres also geting for yourself what others have as well even if they say no..you cant just kick a guy take his money and run,thats not right unless you need the money and he is related to the guy who took yours..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2407
01/11/2009 01:15 PM
  
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Don't put words in my mouth

I never said we have the God given right! (I hate when people jump to conclusions rather than listen to what I actually say.)

So in your view does anyone anywhere have the "right" to any piece of property? Or is it all "dog eat dog" and "might makes right"?
canarsie 

Post No. 2406
01/11/2009 12:46 PM
  
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you don listen ..I never said we have any freakn right to be in israel altho thats the official line from israel..we are there with no right as in this world its dog eat dog and jews must survive as everyone else..
no godgiven,,not law givenn the word operative here in TAKEN..we took it and we will take more if attacked..we have no right more than others to life to land to anything...you say we have a right givn by god others say by laww.i say by might..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2405
01/11/2009 12:11 PM
  
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Cardinal Renato Martino

I shouldn't bring up the Inquisition but how dare a senior aide to the Pope bring up Holocaust imagery to describe a situation where Jews are defending themselves from those who would like to finish Hitler's work! Hamas says openly that they want to destroy Israel. They have also said that Jews around the world should be killed. They believe that God Himself wants the Jews destroyed. That puts them in the camp of Hitler. Now this hateful man brings up Holocaust imagery to describe what the Jews are doing to defend against 8 years of rocket attacks from these people?

I am not saying that I support the way Israel has handled the Gaza now or ever. But look at what other countries do for much less. Look what the U.S. did to Iraq and Afghanistan! If this is a concentration camp, what was Iraq during those early days of "Shock and Awe" ... an extermination oven?

What did the Pope do during the Holocaust when Jews were actually in concentration camps? Why didn't he speak out then? Where was Renato Martino back then? Where was his counterpart?

Yeah, its always easy to pick on the Jews. Sure, there's only 14 million of them. But the Nazis ... oh no, they were 60 million strong, and located in the Pope's backyard. So I guess might makes right. You speak out against the little guy defending himself, and you shut your mouth when the big guy rounds people up and throws them into ovens! But God forbid the little guy should try to use some might of his own. Oh no, then you jump on him, kick him, and accuse him of the atrocities of the big guy who tried to wipe him out!

This Cardinal is so disgusting words can't convey it. We cannot, nor should we, blame all Catholics for the sickness expressed by this one man, but if I were a Catholic, I would be calling for his resignation. This man is supposedly a holy man?

I wonder how he would react if someone bombed the Vatican with 10,000 bombs over 8 years. Let's see his reaction as the Michaelangelo statues get blown to bits, as the Sistine Chapel comes crashing in! Let's see his reaction when he and the Pope have to run to a bomb shelter several times a day, year after year!

Disgracia!!

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