Guestbook

The Von Cello Guestbook is unlike any other! Join the fun! But you must register to post. No spam allowed! Click here for old monthly archives. You can also search using the search button, or reading the back posts listed below.

  Hello Visitor
Register | Login
Von Cello 

Post No. 2528
02/02/2009 07:50 PM
  
Comments (0)
Long but worth it (if you are interested)

Believe it or not, a Christian guy saw my videos about religion on You Tube and decided to email me with the hope of converting me! I will copy my last correspondence with him because I think it will be very interesting and insightful for those interested in this kind of debate. Recently I have debated Steve from his Atheist point of view. Now look at how I debate Phil from his Christian point of view.

(For anyone who may be offended to see Christianity challenged, please do not read this. This is only for those with an interest in comparative religious debating.)

Hi Phil,

I'll quote your lines and my answers will be without quotes.

"I can understand why you are irritated by Christians."

Not in general. It's anyone who tries to push his "truth" rather than learn from others.

"And I understand your point about Muslims, killing infidels, and everything else you mentioned. Ultimately, that is where love is factored in."

They believe they are operating from love too. You believe God wants you to do X and they believe God wants them to do Y. In both cases it is belief rather than knowledge that is causing the behavior. I argue in my book, Beyond Faith, that it is time for humanity to move beyond this type of irrational behavior no matter who is doing it and no matter how much "love" is involved. Love too is often irrational.

"The golden rule isn't, "Do unto others as you want done unto you" but "Love your neighbor as yourself" (twice in Leviticus and also spoken by Christ)."

What makes you think there is only one golden rule? When Rabbi Hillel was asked by a skeptic to distill the whole Bible into one sentence he said, "What is hateful to you, do it not to your friend." So that was his take. Maybe Jesus' take was "Love your neighbor...". Both are good rules to live by.

"They sound similar, but I think there is a difference there. Webster's definition for love is "an intense feeling of deep affection". In 1 Corinthians 13 (sorry to quote the NT but I believe this is a relative point to the discussion) says " 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails."

You confirmed my point, it is an "intense feeling", i.e. an emotional thing, not an intellectual thing. Christianity tends to make emotional pleas because there is not enough logic to counter the original revelation.

"I'll give you this, Christians have not been the ideal icon for this. Myself being the worst offender I know. Christ life and sacrifice was the epitome of this though."

That is your opinion, but many people disagree.

"Yes, Christians seek to do everything in love, we try. We fall short, as all do, but that's where Christ comes in. I sincerely do try though. I share the Gospel because it is the ultimate message of love."

I totally disagree with this. First of all, how do you know what is the "ultimate message of love"? Do you know more than Ghandi for instance on the true meaning of love? And what about the Torah, a book dictated letter by letter by God according to the Jewish tradition? Are you saying a book written by a bunch of men, the so called "New" Testament, is more authoritative than the book written by the creator of the universe? This is the hubris that I am talking about that I see in certain Christians. Now you know better than God Himself!

"It may seem rude and I'm sure many make it "self-seeking or prideful", but it is by no means those things if it is done in love. I could touch on this point for many paragraph's about the apparent loopholes that tie in between preaching Christ and loving your neighbor, but I think you understand my point. If not, I'll try to expand on it. I understand your point as well, which makes this a hard topic to adequately address. Thank you for pointing them out."

Well again, everyone thinks they are coming from love. Me too. But true love is giving the person what they want. If your wife wants flowers you shouldn't bring her an autographed baseball and try to explain why it is the "ultimate gift" because it comes from your deepest "love". Just give her the flowers! LOL!

"Concerning Muslims. Does killing infidels sound like love or hate to you? It does NOT sound patient, kind, unboastful, etc by any means. It doesn't sound like they have a deep affection for the person they are trying to get their message across to. And what is their motive in sharing their faith? Is it legalism or is it love?"

You should correspond with some Muslims. I met a few of the fundamentalist type in my day and they would say that that they love God and love humanity and they believe that those who do not submit to God's laws are causing God pain and creating all the evils we see in the world. So if one does not submit, by killing them they are doing a great service for God and man. What greater love can you show to God than to kill for Him, if this is His wish? Every group will justify their behavior from the evangelical Christian to the Jihadist Muslim.

"Again, you can say the same thing about Christians. But I tell you, sharing Christ makes my salvation no more legitimate than not sharing it and I'm speaking of Christ because He is God's gift and love manifested to us."

You really should add, "in my opinion". It is offensive to tell people of another religion that your belief is God's gift to the world. You have not proved a thing to me, you are just pouring out your heart. That would be fine if I asked to know what is in your heart. But don't you see that this doesn't solve anything. I could do the same to you. Would that make you convert to my beliefs?

"What is Muslim's motivation in converting others to Islam... self-righteousness? You might say, "Now Phil, you're being rude, that's not love." But speaking truth is not rude. If I've done it in a rude manner, forgive me. I've done my best to not do so, which is hard using email. So perhaps in the future, I'll make more of an effort to talk to people in person. But this conversation has been meaningful to me, so I'm glad it's happening."

It's always good to learn about what other people think. None of us should act as if we have all the answers and other people don't know as much as us. They say the wisest of men can even learn from fools.

"You said, "would you want say, a Muslim, emailing you about the good news about Mohammed? How would you like it if since you were a child time and time again Muslims tried to convert you to Islam?". Honestly, as a child I wouldn't have. As an unredeemed sinner, probably not. I wouldn't want to hear anything that opposed me living out my life exactly the way I wanted. But now, as a servant of Christ, I would welcome those emails and people knocking on my door. So which "love your neighbor as yourself" am I to live by. Other people's standards of love, my own standards of past or present, or God's standards? It's easy to say, "Well I would want others to tell me about Christ" when I am a believer of Christ. But I think answering that question for me has to come from an examining the Word. Christ and Paul command servants of Christ "to answer everyone of the hope that is within you with gentleness and respect" and to "speak the Gospel to all nations/people"."

If you really believe that, give me your personal email address and I will pass it on to some Muslim chat boards. I'm sure there are Muslims who would be happy to fulfill your desire to have them proselytize about Mohammed to you. Seriously, I'll be happy to pass your email address on.

"Keeping silent is not love. But neither is ramming the Gospel down someone's throat. Or any message for that matter. I think most (if not all) religions, Christianity included, have done a fair share of both."

Wrong. Jews do not proselytize. Jews say that God loves ALL of His children. That to me is the greatest message of all. (Sorry to sound as egotistical as you a few minutes ago.) But seriously, what greater message can you have than that God already loves you no matter what religion or nation you come from? He loves everyone. He demands righteousness. Jews would say that what God wants is not belief but being good to your fellow man. After all, that is what the belief should lead you to also!

"So in the end, the conclusion is that no one's perfect. We can do, do, do, or don't, don't, don't.... but in the end we are all hypocrites, slanderers, liars, the list goes on. Would you not agree Aaron?" Have you not been a hypocrite of the things you've said or written? Have you not felt guilty at one point or prideful at another. Me and everyone I know are guilty of those things. To not recognize that, is to deceive ourselves. No one needs a doctorate in religion, anthropology, ethics, etc to see these things. We live in a fallen world, where everyone is guilty of the things mentioned. If there is a God (which me and you would both agree there is)"

Do not make assumptions.

"on what basis can we come before Him when we die and say that we've been good enough. Why would a just/perfect God not punish wrong doing and rebellion wherever it is found? You may not necessarily agree with me on some of these points and I expect that. I'm willing to hear you out on these your opinions and consider what you have to say. Do you not see what I'm speaking of though? This is why no other religion or way of life makes sense to me, because they(other belief systems) can not lift that burden of sin without either tucking it under the rug and saying it doesn't exist or by trying to make up for it by their own deeds... which can never blot out the bad owns."

What you are saying is typical Christian theology. You have to learn to think for yourself. This whole idea that "we live in a fallen world" and that nothing but belief in Jesus can save you is not accepted by Jews. If anything, this idea is immoral in the sense that it provides a short cut past really doing what is right. Despite what you have been told, Judaism does not put this guilt trip on people that your type of Christianity does. Christianity puts on a guilt trip and then says the only way you can lift it is by doing what we say. Judaism says that we have a loving Father in heaven. Yes, we will be judged, and yes there is no short cut, but if you really try your best you have to believe that a good and loving Father will do what is right. As they say, Trust in the Lord, for His kindness is everlasting! How wonderful. What could be better?

"That's why I believe in the shed blood of Christ atoning for my sins. What do you think about that Aaron? Set aside physical facts and science for a minute and just look at that concept, and see if it makes sense. If it does and it's truth, then the evidence is there, regardless of what some people may say. I think sufficient evidence has already been discovered, but skeptics will always say otherwise. People who don't want to believe, will always find a way around the truth. I know you can say the same thing about me... but I'm not claiming any of this information for my own benefit. Admitting I suck and that I'm a sinner isn't something I find joy in doing, it's just the truth. Being honest with myself is what leads me to understanding."

Again, this is typical Christian-think. Try to move beyond it. Try to open your mind to other ideas. Why not? Are you scared you will end up in hell? What kind of sick evil god would do that to someone who sincerely searches for the truth. Move "Beyond Faith". I highly recommend you get my book.

Best,
Aaron
Von Cello 

Post No. 2527
02/01/2009 09:45 PM
  
Comments (0)
De Best

If lawyers are debarred and clergymen are defrocked, doesn`t it follow that...

...electricians can be delighted, musicians denoted, cowboys deranged, models deposed, and drycleaners depressed? Laundry workers could decrease, eventually becoming depressed and depleted!

Even more, bedmakers will be debunked, baseball players will be debased, bankers will lose their balance, bulldozer operators will be degraded, organ donors will be delivered, authors will be sent off for a long sentence, software engineers will be detested, Asian factory workers will become disoriented, vegetarians will get canned, executives will follow suit, battery makers will get discharged, botanists will leave, and even musical composers will eventually decompose.

On a more positive note though, maybe politicians will be devoted.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2526
02/01/2009 09:35 PM
  
Comments (0)
Von Author?

The latest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daLLnNmHoVA&feature=channel_page
Von Cello 

Post No. 2525
01/30/2009 02:35 PM
  
Comments (0)
Perhaps the most interesting site of all!

http://mksvdatabase.com/42704/index.html

Von Cello 

Post No. 2524
01/30/2009 02:31 PM
  
Comments (0)
So much history, so little time!

Another interesting site:

http://www.jewishhistoryinonehour.com/
Von Cello 

Post No. 2523
01/30/2009 11:26 AM
  
Comments (0)
Jews in Space!

Who puts up a mezuzah in space? A Jewish astronaut

By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Jewish astronaut

If Dr. Garrett Reisman did not exist, then Mel Brooks or Woody Allen would have had to invent him. The veteran astronaut, who spent three straight months in space, looks like a character from a comedy about Jews in space: He is short, an engineer and full of self-deprecating humor that is often missing in astronauts.

Reisman, a native of New Jersey, is the first Jew to have lived in the International Space Station.

"The mission went pretty well, I did not break anything that was too expensive," he says.

When he got to the space station, via the space shuttle Endeavor, he was quick to put up a mezuzah in the bunk where he slept.

"I did not consult any rabbi, so I hope I did not get into any trouble," he says.

Reisman is in Israel for the fourth Ilan Ramon International Space Conference, which is organized by the Science Ministry and the Fisher Brothers Institute for Air and Space Strategic Studies.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2522
01/29/2009 02:04 PM
  
Comments (0)
?

Might be interesting. I haven't checked it out yet.

http://www.toolong.com/
Von Cello 

Post No. 2521
01/29/2009 01:16 PM
  
Comments (0)
Rabbinic Christianty

Steve, LN, and anyone else -

The video in the post below is very interesting. My old rabbi is now teaching "Rabbinic Christianity". It is a new field of study that investigates the similarities and differences between Christianity and Judaism. My favorite line is this, "(Religion) doesnt have to be a series of given answers that you have to agree with or disagree with. Religion can be seen as a wisdom that allows you to respond to eternal questions."

Wow! I haven't seen or heard this man since my Bar Mitzvah, and it wasn't until now that I realized that I have been so influenced by his ideas. You see, Steve, if you grew up with him as your rabbi you would probably have a whole different attitude.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2520
01/28/2009 07:20 PM
  
Comments (0)
Even more incredible!

http://www.rabbisiegel.jshh.org/Rabbinic_Christianity_Part_1_Excerpts_Spring_2008.wmv
Von Cello 

Post No. 2519
01/28/2009 07:07 PM
  
Comments (0)
Rabbi Martin Siegel!

Wow! I just found an interview from the rabbi from my youth. He now works for the Methodist Church!

Incredible!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9450060
G O D 

Post No. 2518
01/28/2009 04:46 PM
  
Comments (0)

im from the skeptic tank.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2517
01/28/2009 04:31 PM
  
Comments (0)
Skeptic vs. Scoffer

What is the difference between a scoffer and a skeptic?

The skeptic has a healthy mistrust of information. He wants the ability to question it, to see if it holds up to scrutiny. He is skeptical, but if something is shown to be reasonable, the skeptic would agree.

The scoffer has no interest in finding the truth. He merely wants to make fun of something whether or not he actually understands it.

The skeptic seeks new information so that he can finally make a reasoned judgement. The scoffer is hostile to new information because he does not want to learn, or think, or change his opinion. His enjoyment is in tearing down, insulting, making fun. His underlying motive is negative.

Each one of us has to determine if we will be the believer, the skeptic, or the scoffer.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2516
01/28/2009 04:18 PM
  
Comments (0)
Not by bread alone

To be is to do. - Satre

To do is to be. - Voltaire

Do be do be do. - Sinatra
G O D 

Post No. 2515
01/28/2009 03:33 PM
  
Comments (0)

o yeh?and your mother wears israeli army boots
Von Cello 

Post No. 2514
01/28/2009 02:16 PM
  
Comments (0)
Marcus is a Carcass

G O D 

Post No. 2513
01/28/2009 09:01 AM
  
Comments (0)
holocaust2.0 out of beta today

who knows aaron says>
theres 1 way to find out..the next attack israel can just pray..no planes taks,,just parying and maybe youll be right on it.. in everywar everside prays..in the camps jews parayed but went to the ovens anyway..was it gods desire to see little joseph watch his mom die?
...................
new JEW 2.0 now out of beta..improved user interface now from home.easier operation no candles no challs no missing saturday night football,better sharing and most of all more options.
you can use the free version here or download the pay version which includes free upgrades ,as jews change you can remain a jew although you dont practice it all.comes with free holocaust 2.0.
the new holocaust and all the new software like faceout book and of course hotasanoven mail.dont miss out on the new holy messenger with chat now called yenta2.0. and theres more..if you order now you get absolutely free
MYERSPACE
Von Cello 

Post No. 2512
01/28/2009 08:48 AM
  
Comments (0)
Tzitzit

Thanks LN. Sometimes I think Steve is just looking to create controversy. But it is possible he really does not understand how religion is entwined in society. Here is a quote from that link you posted:

What came out of this war: A sense of spiritual faith, strengthened and grateful.

Elie told me that during the war, hundreds of pairs of tzitzit - a four-cornered garment with strings that men are commanded to wear - were distributed. The army simply could not keep up with demand. Elie told me that five pairs of tefillin (phylacteries - a religious article that is tied to the arm and to the head during the prayers - typically in the morning, that contains parchment with words from the Torah), were donated to his unit and it was in constant use throughout the day. One boy who is not religious at all - put on tefillin every day of the war. These are the shields of Israel, a vital part of who we are and as our sons faced this war, they understood this.

From the most religious to the most secular - even perhaps those who say they don't believe - still prayed for the safety of our soldiers and our southern residents.


Steve would scoff at this, but who knows what benefit these spiritual acts may bring? And the fact is, many soldiers do them and believe they help.
LN_Cello 

Post No. 2511
01/28/2009 07:36 AM
  
Comments (0)
Not only lip service

I can't say anything first hand myself, but I did read this, for instance: http://israelisoldiersmother.blogspot.com/2009/01/thoughts-of-war.html
G O D 

Post No. 2510
01/28/2009 01:59 AM
  
Comments (0)

there are no religious people in the brokers office either..wen they get the big return they never remember the promise they made to god "if i win big ill help the poor.ill donate half to charity" When they pik up the winning they forget all that and become aethiests..all mine!!

israel lets people off military service if they are religious very religious but israel doesnt depend on them at all,its just lip service to our past a belief in a god from our past.. however ive never seen israel sit back and hit hard with prayer,,usually its f16s,,in gaza i didnt see any praying against rockets or nyt articles slamming jews for destoying buildings with prayers...

headline..israel prays down a terror center in gaza..too much paryer kills arabs..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2509
01/27/2009 11:31 PM
  
Comments (0)
Herbie's Pizza Party

I got Herbie's Pizza Party linked on a Tom Green video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm55ZIc9M0o


Von Cello 

Post No. 2508
01/27/2009 01:21 PM
  
Comments (0)
No atheists in the fox holes

There are many army comanndoes that are religious. Where did you get the idea that religious people cannot fight to defend themselves? Every hear of Chanukah?
G O D 

Post No. 2507
01/27/2009 09:24 AM
  
Comments (0)
voncello or a minsky

i was most strongly infulenced in israel.. i went thinking about a god ,i returned knowing it was an illusion..the israeli commandos showed me that you dont make friends by loving caring...you make friends in facebook...im steven i marcus in the book
Von Cello 

Post No. 2506
01/27/2009 09:02 AM
  
Comments (0)
Everybody hm hm, everybody hm hm

Well, if "everybody" is in Facebook, I guess I have to be too!

Anyway, I guess it's pointless to discuss whether or not God exists with you because your mind is made up and you refuse to be confused by the facts.

You should check out that webpage that LN brought up, The Rainbow Swastika. You will see that there is still an agenda out there that is similar in basic beliefs to the Nazis, that is bent on destroying Judaism, the Jewish concept of God, and the jews as a people. You may have been influenced by this agenda and may actually be helping to bring destruction on the very people you claim to be supporting.
G O D 

Post No. 2505
01/27/2009 02:05 AM
  
Comments (0)

even if u dont want to .others pass your name arounf in facebook as theyre talking happily about you from their pasts..fran friedman asked to no have her namr=e brought up as someone in her world might google it amd be led to some comment about 1973..reed as well..professional vs personal...in fb a girl found her old boyfriend and they began to trade memories and her husband also in fb read it all...

however everyone from canarsie is there.i mean everyone. by school class year hangout(under the bleechers)brook pier plaza.etc. fotos .your sis is there too/
except god..god is not in facebook..as false profiles arent allowed and god doesnt exist
Von Cello 

Post No. 2504
01/26/2009 04:00 PM
  
Comments (0)
Facenightmare

I dunno why Facebook is particularly bad. But check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwnTWZ1-UWY

Who knows? Maybe Youtube made this video in order to keep people from going to their competitor. I would bet, like you said, that every move anyone makes on the internet is tracked by someone. The world is a scary place the more you know about it. On the other hand it was scary before Facebook too.

Back to Top

 
Home | About Von Cello | Upcoming Gigs | Recordings | Compositions | Store
E-Mail List | Interact | Video Clips | Pictures | Links | Trademark | Musicians Only

Von Cello is incorporated in the United States of America. This web site and all its content is copyrighted. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized duplication is a violation of applicable law.
Click here for copyright, terms of usage, and legal statements.