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Von Cello 

Post No. 1657
03/08/2008 11:47 AM
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Chosen...for what?

Yes, people are angry at the Jews for calling themselves the Chosen People. But as you point out, if God chose them then it is not their fault!

But even if we were to say that they, not God, make this claim, how did the nations react? Did they propose a philosophy where no one is "Chosen" and we are all equal? Not at all. The created systems where THEY become the Chosen!

In traditional Christianity, only Christians go to heaven, therefore THEY are the Chosen. In Islam only Muslims go to heaven so THEY are the Chosen. The same is true in Hitlerian thinking, only the Aryans are the Chosen.

But if you look at it closely, actually the Jewish view is the most universal and favorable to all mankind. Judaism ALWAYS stated that the righteous of all nations will go to heaven. Some Jews believe that they will have a higher status, but at least all good people get in! In the other systems I mentioned, only the "in" group gets any status at all, and all who are not 'in" get thrown into eternal damnation! (Although in the Nazi case there is no hell, so Hitler set up one here on earth.)

So anyone who hates the Jews because they claim to be the Chosen, should look at their own culture. In reality, from what I have read, the thing the Jews were chosen for was to receive the Torah! That's it! So the rest of the world should just chill out and deal with it!

Next post I'll deal with music!
Von Cello 

Post No. 1656
03/08/2008 11:34 AM
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Von Cello 

Post No. 1655
03/07/2008 11:32 PM
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So many threads, so little time...

I wonder what some other folks think about what we have been talking about. I'll answer more of your points over the weekend. I think anti-Semitism is based on jealousy. But the more I look into it, it seems that most people are manipulated into it by a press that is actually very controlled, plus ideas that are released into society by the ruling class. As Professor Gil-White explains, it is the fact that Judaism is a religion based on a slave rebellion that makes it so hated by those who would rule the world. Therefore it is in their interest to constantly foment hatred of Jews.

Now, when you get into Satan...that opens up a whole other can of worms! (To be discussed soon.)

Post No. 1654
03/07/2008 08:47 PM
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But the bottom line is, in my opinion, this it is anti-Semitism
What except hatred of Jews can account for such an insane expectation?
It's total hypocrisy, and that is also why I think it stems from some type of sick hatred.

Three times - so it must be true .
This is so sad. So deeply sad. I think all this hatred stems from jealousy. And one must see this on a larger level, as well.
People are jealous of the Jews, because there are so few Jews in the world and yet, they make a difference. Take only the music scene. Or science. Or medicin. So many IT inventions and internet-applications. (I donot know why they always forget there are poor Jews, too. There are enormous poverty problems nowadays in Israel itself. We only hear about the Poor Palestinian People.) Ah, and then the "Who are the Jews to think they are The Chosen People?" But - they can't even help it! I mean, how can one help being chosen by God? (I donot know why they always forget the responsability that comes with being chosen, and for the Jews, this has been a heavy burden.)
But not only people are jealous. Satan is jealous, too. He is jealous of the God of the Jews. He wanted to be like Him, and he couldnot accept he isn't. But he is still trying. And he deceives us into all sorts of wrong thinking and wrong -isms. He gives us a wrong picture of God. And as for the concept of hell - I think hell just means - to be separate from God eternally. And why would you care, if you don't believe in Him in the first place? Or why would you NOT rather be with Him eternally, if you believe He created you and knows your ins and outs better than you do yourself? Aaron, this is not my own thinking here - I have learned this over the years, and I wish I could easily refer to some place or someone who can say it with more authority and back it up from the Bible. Or, to narrow it down, from the Tenach.

But in reality it (antisemitism) is passed down by the millions of little expressions and comments that kids hear from their parents, friends, and even preachers
Yes. Very true. Millions of them, and little tiny subtle ones. Hard to distinguish.

The first time I visited the Jewish Historical Museum in Amsterdam, what struck me of all the things I saw there was in fact a big part of the answer to the question of how the Shoah could have happened. The main exhibition was many photo's of (pre-)WWII times in the Netherlands. And captions would read like: a new policy was decided that .... (Jews only allowed to buy from Jews, Jews only allowed to go to Jewish theatres, but even much more subtle measures). And that is the secret: the initial steps are so subtle that an unprepared mind doesn't notice. Cannot connect the dots.

What one does not know CAN hurt him.
Couldnot agree more!

Post No. 1653
03/07/2008 07:55 PM
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The shoot out in Jerusalem made me write a whole different post, so tracking back first.

I'm sure I heard the whole cycle of quartets live at some point. I used to know them as well as other people know Beatle Albums. I knew them so well that I had to stop listening to them because I knew every note that was comilng. His music can indeed bring you to a higher plane.

Oh yes, I know that - that you know every note that's coming. But I hope you don't mean you had to stop listening because it wasn't new anymore? Because then, since you know what's coming, to observe a string quartet perform in such a piece, is ... a whole study in itself! Quartet is the most intriguing form of (classical) music making maybe, even though all the notes are written down and not one's own (like in jazz etc., when one improvises). As a listener, you really get to know the quartet members even without meeting them. It lays bare one's soul. My favourite is the French/Belgian Quatuor Danel, but they haven't recorded them yet. So I still go with the terrific Takacs-4. (ha, sounds good - The Terrific Takacs!).

There were many times in those difficult days of loneliness and hopelessness that I sometimes felt in the years after college when Beethoven's music gave me insight and hope.

Insight and hope. Yes, how does that work. It is so true! For example, for years, I was not too fond of his cello sonata's (thought the role of the cello wasn't "important" enough) but then I started to study one of them, and then it became more clear. Next, I heard Pieter Wispelwey and Dejan Lazic perform them - all cellists must get that recording! Very personal interpretation, but for those who can manage such a thing - a complete overhaul! They've become of my favourites. So now, when I need to recharge my batteries, need energy, perseverance, I listen to a sonata of these discs.
And - I've had my time of studying recordings of all the Shostakovitch quartets and most symphonies and I was reading a lot, too, at that time (about the composer, about Russia, about, ah, again, WWII, the Shoah, the eternal question of how, not to speak of why). Luckily I was older than just after college years! This was a hard time - but it was good to have been "down there".

Hope - now you remind me of Valentin Berlinsky, the cellist of the Borodin Quartet when he gave a masterclass to a young quartet working on one of the opus 59s (this is 1993). At some point, he talked about the difference between Shostakovitch (on which they had extensively worked with the Borodin-4, too) and Beethoven. He said "Shostakovitch didnot believe in God, but Beethoven did, and that's why, in his music, ultimately, there is light at the end of the tunnel." First, I thought this strange, coming from a man who had lived all his life under communist rule. Then I realised he was an artist, not just an oppressed civilian. And about 7 years later, when I heard all the Shostakovitch quartets performed live (also in one long weekend!) I lived through that "no light at the end of the tunnel" effect Berlinsky referred to. I think he ... there is nobody else who could capture, put into music the suffering of all mankind as he does. After the 15th Quartet - I felt as if I was standing at the edge of the mass grave in Babi Yar. Even more so than in the 13th symphony. It is that intense. And I still struggle with Berlinsky's remark...

Beethoven - Revolution - yes, that's it. Interesting to put the composer in his historical context but on another continent!
Von Cello 

Post No. 1652
03/07/2008 04:03 PM
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Ha, Ha, I was only kidding! - (God to the Jews)

And why did our pastors never show us that? Why was she first? Because there is this teaching in the protestant and Catholic churches that after the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah (but not even all of them did, so for a start, it was a bad generalisation!), God changed His plan and from then on worked with the "church". And all the promises/ covenants that were made to/with the Jewish people, even the eternal ones, were transferred to the "church", i.e. the christians, more precisely, those gentiles and those Jews who believed in Jesus as Messiah. Ah, except the promises about dispersion.

I love it! What a brilliant observation. God broke all of his promises to the Jews...except the bad ones! And THIS is the God of love? Very funny how people can believe such things.

In my book I deal with this concept of God abandoning his "eternal" promises to the Jews and giving them all to the Christians. I hope no one is offended by this, but for the most part I quote scripture to back up my points. Here is a short section from the book:

*It is absolutely consistent throughout the Bible that "Israel" refers to Israel himself (a.k.a. Jacob) or his descendants, the Jews. "The nations" refers to the Gentiles, the non-Jews. Great pains are taken in Isaiah to make this abundantly clear. "But thou, Israel, My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My friend, thou whom I have taken hold of from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the uttermost parts thereof, and said unto thee: 'Thou art My servant, I have chosen thee and not cast thee away' ... ". No stronger and more obvious language could be used. God not only says "Israel", but "My servant" (which is used only in reference to the Jews), and "Jacob" (further elucidated by pointing out that God Himself chose him), and "the seed of Abraham" (recalling God's promise to Abraham concerning the choosing of his descendants, his flesh and blood children, his "seed", which always refers to physical children), and then further defines Israel as those who were scattered and redeemed from "the ends of the earth" (which singularly applies in history to the Jews), and caps it all off by directly quoting Himself, promising the Jews that they are indeed chosen and are not cast away. How, in light of this incredibly specific language, can Christians claim that they are now the "true Jews" and that these prophecies apply to them? How do they have the audacity to say that the Jews, who are described thus by God Himself (according to one whom they agree is "a prophet of the Lord"), are rejected by God and deserving of eternal damnation in hell! Christians who realize the invalidity of calling themselves "Jews" make an alternative claim that by Jesus dying on the cross and then rising, all of these prophecies were voided and have become invalid. This makes no sense at all. There is no rational basis for the claim that the death of someone (and even his supposed resurrection) has any affect whatsoever on the promises of God. (Christians try to back up this claim through misinterpretations of other prophecies. Part II of this chapter exposes the pattern of problems in the New Testament.) Despite the flimsy nature of both these claims, Christians still persist in trying to scare Jews with threats of hell. Isaiah continues with God's response, "Fear thou not, for I am with thee, be not dismayed for I am thy God, I strengthen thee, yea, I help thee; yea, I uphold thee with My victorious right hand." How could a learned Jew possibly accept Jesus, in light of these reassurances directly from God Himself? And how can Christians believe, that after saying these things, God would turn around and throw Jews into hell for believing Him! God turns His attention to this next, "Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded; they that strove with thee shall be as nothing, and shall perish. Thou shalt seek them and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee; they that warred against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of naught." Look at this list: "All they that were incensed", "they that strove", "even them that contended", and "they that warred": every enemy of the Jews will be "ashamed and confounded", "as nothing", "as a thing of naught". "For I, the Lord thy God, hold thy right hand, who say unto thee: 'Fear not, I help thee." (Isaiah 4 1:8-13) Not only are great pains taken to make it abundantly clear who "Israel" is, but a similar clarification is used to make abundantly clear who "God" is: "I', "the Lord", "thy God". This is continued in the next sentence, "... I help thee, saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel." (Isaiah 41:14) Because God, according to Isaiah, knew that Jews would come up against intense challenges to their beliefs (including the obfuscation of who God really was and who His chosen people really were) He spoke in such a detailed way so that there could be no doubt in the minds of intelligent people as to the true intent of His statements. Furthermore God, according to Isaiah, knew the Jews would be attacked on an emotional level. That is why He says, "Fear not, I help thee". This is a call to overcome fear, and trust in the Lord.*

Von Cello 

Post No. 1651
03/07/2008 12:11 PM
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Jews for Jesus, Christians for Allah, Muslims for Krishna...

I'm not shocked at all about the Jews for Jesus. I even debated one of the head New York ministers (or whatever they are called). This is, however, the first time I have seen something truly positive come from them. If a Jew for Jesus is out there getting Christians to support Israel, all I can say is Halleluyah!

I am very familiar with the prophecies that are used to justify how Jesus is the messiah. I am also very familiar with why Jews do not accept the Christian interpretations of those prophecies. I deal with this extensively in my book, Beyond Faith. Years ago I used to get very angry at Jews for Jesus and other Christians who tried to convert me, or show me how the Jews had "gone wrong". Now I realize that there are many Christians who are supportive of Israel and of Jews in general. Even though we may disagree over various interpretations of scripture, I have found that we are on the same side against people who seek to destroy us both, so I have come to be much more open to those who support Israel no matter how they come to it. Nevertheless, it is always interesting to see how various people make their way to that position. (I'll try to get into this in more detail in a future post.)

One thing that is weird about this guestbook is that people tend to have conversations with me, but not so much with each other. I guess that makes sense since I am the one who brought everyone here, but I would like to see more interplay. I love nothing more than to watch people compare and contrast their ideas. So hopefully we will see more of that as the years go by.

Years? Yes! This guestbook must be around 6 or 7 years old by now!

Post No. 1650
03/07/2008 02:55 AM
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and how do your fellow countrymen react?

The Dutch - well, must admit sympathy with Israel is on the decline here (thanks to our biased leftist media). The sympathy there is, you will find mostly with independent thinkers (few) and with christians. To be precise, among those that have been cured of this "The Church is the new Israel"-doctrine.
The undistorted, unbiased news and the good news (e.g., about places were cooperation does exist between Jews and Arabs) about Israel - you can only read it in Christian magazines (and you can imagine how they have to work overtime to set all those records straight).
And as I wrote earlier, when I do get in discussions, people sometimes ask me whether I am Jewish. Because, to explain Israel's history, or try set the historical record straight, one must be Jewish. But then I ask, if I'd be argueing for the cause of the Tibetans, would you ask me whether I am a Tibetan? No. And if I happened to be argueing for the cause of the Palestinians, would you etc. ... ? No. (But you could be Jewish from your looks, or you lived in Israel, or you learned Hebrew, blabla, still nonsens). Frankly, I don't grab this. Only one reason I can think up and that is Israel isnot seen as an underdog, and to side with the upperdog (eh?), one has to be an upperdoggian himself. But the Palestinians may be an underdog, the Arabs backing them certainly aren't! So that is a false view anyway.

So one must realize that Israel will always be painted as the bully, even while accepting hundreds of attacks. Unless Jews allow themselves to be led to the slaughter like sheep, many in the media will demonize them.

You couldnot be closer to the truth! There is no use for Israel in yielding to what the world wants her to do, no use for another Roadmap, another Oslo, 'cs the "world community" will demonize the Jews even as they are slaughtered like sheep. ........................................................ I can hardly type these words, I hate to do it, but it is the terrible truth. 'Cs it's already happening now, this sick reasoning, "yeah, but they also killed so and so many Palestinians these weeks". (Implying, they deserve to have some of them killed, too.) That's why I said, can't we think for ourselves anymore? Do we compare anything with anything? Sick. Do we compare a soldier who takes out an armed guy who was threatening him or on the blacklist and associated with earlier murders with a terrorist who slays two unarmed teenagers in the hills of Judea? Can't we see the difference anymore?

Steve, please take over and write something about - anything. Not about retirement, though About how Spanish and Hebrew language confuse and mix (they did for me).
Edward, I wanted to thank you for the Putumayo link!

Post No. 1649
03/07/2008 02:34 AM
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Wow! I can't believe a European who is not Jewish is saying such things!

Wait wait wait, I may be a European, but first I am Dutch. And I know we have got a lot of things not to be proud of, but some of us still have some of the old values. That is genuine (but not naive) tolerance and freedom of speech and of religion. So it shouldnot come as that big a surprise?

BTW, how did you become pro-Israel,
But ... but - I have never been anti-Israel! I grew up in a christian (protestant) family and have always been familiar with the history of the Jewish people, because we read it in the Bible every day at home and learned it at school. And, looking back, I must call myself lucky that my parents brought us up free of any hint of anti-semitism. Also we grew up with a lot of stories our parents told about WWII. There were no Jews where I was born, nor at my schools. I was too young in 67, but in 73 I was 12 and I did read the newspapers. However, for me the big change where the Jews from the bible got linked with the state of Israel came when, at 17 - Aaron, you started this, okay - I made being a christian a decision of my own and that was triggered by two evenings we attended with bible lectures by a Jewish lady whom in the States I guess you would call a Jew for Jesus. Don't shock, or shock and read on anyway! I simply realised I had to be on either side, with God or against Him. There's no in between thing, no indifference. It wasn't easy, it was like giving up oneself. But this was not about emotion, or something like fear for hell, it was all about reason and logic. Have you ever studied how many prophecies in the Tenach have been fulfilled?! To the letter?!
Now why were these two evenings such eye-openers (my parents to this day recall that "the ... fell from their eyes" on that day)? Although this lady mainly read through the Bible with us, and linked verse to verse to verse and pointed out prophecies that had been fulfilled and took everything literally, not spiritually (or not only), so many things and links were new to us and to most in the audience! There were verses where we couldnot believe we had never read them like that before! Like Jeremiah 23:7-8 (I don't even know if chapters and verses in the Tenach are numbered the same as in the Bible).

And why did our pastors never show us that? Why was she first? Because there is this teaching in the protestant and Catholic churches that after the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah (but not even all of them did, so for a start, it was a bad generalisation!), God changed His plan and from then on worked with the "church". And all the promises/ covenants that were made to/with the Jewish people, even the eternal ones, were transferred to the "church", i.e. the christians, more precisely, those gentiles and those Jews who believed in Jesus as Messiah. Ah, except the promises about dispersion. I donot know how they did it, but they managed! They now were his chosen people. But this teaching forced the church leaders to read a lot of promises and prophecies in an abstract or spiritual way (hence an abstract Jewish people to return to an abstract Jerusalem in an abstract Israel, etc. etc.). And till 1948, nobody worried, because there was no real Israel. And Jews weren't returning (Well, so they thought. They weren't paying attention, 2 World Wars and a deep economic crisis were being fought here). There was no state, in any case. But then trouble began, as it became clear that real Jews did return to a real city of Jerusalem (albeit split) in a real state of Israel (nah, not Uganda)! What to do? The church leaders did nothing much, but simple people in church started to ask questions and search for answers. Articles, books were written and it became clear a lot of teachings were simply wrong. Imagine for a whole church body to say they taught things wrong for centuries! Takes time.

Well, long story, but for my parents and us it took this lady to enlighten us and I think it was God's timing. You can imagine I asked my parents: but hey, what did you think back in 1948 - and what did they say about it in church? It was a landslide happening! But that was those hard years after the war, things needed to be built up, there was so much destruction, society had to be reorganised, government re-installed, and no TV and no other modern means of quick communication and linking. So massive return of Jews to the new state was not seen in a biblical context by the majority of church people.

There is more to it -push that to a next post.
Von Cello 

Post No. 1648
03/06/2008 10:52 PM
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Wow! I can't believe a European who is not Jewish is saying such things! And I am glad to hear it. You are so right. I mean, just imagine if a group of Native Americans (i.e. Indians) decided that they were justified in their anger at the U.S. for "stealing" Manhattan and they started to shoot missiles into New York City! How long would it take before the U.S. hunted them down and killed them? And what would the world media say? "Terrorists get their just punishment". Yet Sderot, an Israeli town, has been hit by hundreds of missiles since Hamas took over Gaza, and if Israel responds many in the media jump on her.

I have talked about this over and over with people. I have tried to understand the other side. But the bottom line is, in my opinion, this it is anti-Semitism. No European or American city would be expected to allow itself to be hit by even one missile, yet Israel is expected to sit there and be hit by hundreds! What except hatred of Jews can account for such an insane expectation?

I heard a caller to a radio show say recently that Israel deserves these attacks because it "stole" the land from the Palestinians. And he specified "all the land" dating back to 1948! Of course, this is a totally false charge for many reasons, but even if it were true...this caller lives in Manhattan! Would he say that New Yorkers deserve to die in missile attacks from Indians? Is he ready to give up his apartment to an Indian? It's total hypocrisy, and that is also why I think it stems from some type of sick hatred.

The people are indeed brainwashed by a media that is controlled by groups like the CFR who have an agenda that is anti-Israel, and even anti-Jewish. It seems their agenda is basically anti anyone but the Nordic and Aryan peoples, assuming that Professor Gil-White and others are correct. So one must realize that Israel will always be painted as the bully, even while accepting hundreds of attacks. Unless Jews allow themselves to be led to the slaughter like sheep, many in the media will demonize them. Therefore, we must all speak up about the injustice that we see. And we must be prepared for a long, hard struggle.

BTW, how did you become pro-Israel, and how do your fellow countrymen react?

Post No. 1647
03/06/2008 07:20 PM
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Pali's taking a wrong turn, again.

Just got home and find the news about the attack in Jerusalem. I already fear the headlines - "first heavy attack since ...", bla bla, etc. Nobody but the Israelis realise how many attacks have actually been prevented over the past 3 years, all along the 2nd intifada even.
And you know, when a Jew would blow up a mosque (with people inside!) on purpose - the world would be too small.

Sometimes I wonder: is it because we take for granted that Palestinians or Arabs are prone to carry out homicide attacks on buses and in plaza's and Jews wouldn't, and that Palestinians will dance joyfully upon learning how many Jews got killed this time around, whereas Jews wouldnot, that some Palestinian mothers would proudly send their children to death rigged with a bomb belt just so it could kill as many Jews as possible, whereas no Jewish mother would (this taking for granted in fact in itself is an insult!), that there is no outrage in the MSM? Or are we really so ... well, brainwashed that we (at least, the MSM reporters and writers) can't reason anymore? And why actually are we brainwashed? Can't we think for ourselves anymore?

To think for oneself. That's what gets lost in our era. We are being thought for. I grew up w/o TV and still don't own one and I don't regret. I always intuitively mistrusted the idea that millions of people simultaneously watch the same thing being told and shown. Yes, I have internet. But to read is different than to be told (for one it goes faster, so you win time, also you can stop and reflect and ask yself questions about what you read and try find the answers to them, then continue). Also, our age is more volatile, and news paper articles are usually shallow and not very long. And the smaller reports are all copied from the big agencies like Reuters, API, AFP, what we have more, same source stuff anyway.
My 2 cts. But I ask you who read this, why can't we think for ourselves anymore?
Von Cello 

Post No. 1646
03/06/2008 06:46 PM
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That's what I get for listening to that link without really paying attention while doing something else! Yes, Summertime it is, and therefore appropo. (sp?)

I could say more or less the same thing about that tune. But actually I hear Autumn Leaves more often than that one too.

I have a good friend who IS a Jazz bassist. Seems like a cool life, but it is hard to get a gig. He makes most of his money going on tours with Broadway shows. I think he is on a Peter Pan tour for the umptenth time. He spent 9 months in Germany a few years ago. Now it is one nighters all over the U.S. He called recently to wonder outloud how his life got so messed up!

When I was a student in Boston there was a guy who played the whole cycle of Beethoven piano sonatas. I'm sure I heard the whole cycle of quartets live at some point. I used to know them as well as other people know Beatle Albums. I knew them so well that I had to stop listening to them because I knew every note that was comilng. His music can indeed bring you to a higher plane. There were many times in those difficult days of loneliness and hopelessness that I sometimes felt in the years after college when Beethoven's music gave me insight and hope.

I explain to students that Beethoven was alive when the U.S. was fighting the Revolutionary War. What you are listening to with Beethoven is sounds from the time of the Revolution. While George Washington was fighting, and Thomas Jefferson was writing the Declaration of Independence, Beethoven was writing the sound track of the era! And we are still living through the results of what was started at that time.

In my CD "Von Cello Rules!" I have a song called "Scared" that begins with a section from Beethoven's 5th and ends with another section from the piece. It was my way of furthering his message and bringing it into a modern context. I have often said that "Beethoven was the first rock star" and "Beethoven is the father of us all". Most people do not study history and so they have no idea how important to what is happening today was Beethoven. I suppose he is to music what Washington or Jefferson were to politics.

There is that famous story when he was walking down the street and some royals were coming the other way. Goethe suggested they move off the sidewalk and let the royals pass, as was the custom. Beethoven refused, essentially risking imprisonment or worse. Then, to an amazed Goethe he said, "There are many princes but only one Beethoven!" If that is not the first rock star then who? Thus the type cast of the musician as the rebel who stands up to authority was born!

Post No. 1645
03/06/2008 10:09 AM
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Winter is leaving

Hey, thought I had linked to Summertime, not Autumn Leaves? Love to study the double bass pioneers in 50s 60s. Sort of a similar battle, right, Aaron? They revolutionised the role of double bass in jazz, you try to incorporate cello into rock. Me, in my next life I want to be a double bass player, in jazz. Why not now - 'cs I didnot grow up with it and feel can't catch up on lack of how to improvise ... always had notes in front of me when I was a kid. Ain't that a shame. And christians don't believe in reincarnation, so what am I gonna do

Yeah, 18:1 is great. Always thought it's too good to be his first quartet and indeed the opus 18s are not in chronological order. I love the power of Beethoven, esp. the string-4's (less fan of the symphonies nowadays, except # 3). In fact - this weekend I'll hear all opus 18s and all opus 59s in concert! With 4 friends! Feel privileged. Series with the later ones will only be played next season, but I once heard all his quartets in 6 concerts over 4 days. Talking about a spiritual journey! I was on another planet for two weeks. I simply didnot connect anymore. Did my job on automatic pilot, brains working overtime to digest the food for thought of what I had heard. Ah, the power of music...
Von Cello 

Post No. 1644
03/06/2008 08:28 AM
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Retirement? Ouch! You're killing me!

I can just see it now...Steve in Florida in a T shirt, smoking a cigar, playing shuffle board with the alta cockers at Century 21! LOL!

Life is so weird.

Post No. 1643
03/06/2008 01:23 AM
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winter to spring? here its 72 degrees. we are in t shirts in murcia spain.
we have elections next week for president.
Here folks see the usa election as false.First you thro in a black a woman to say we are different not imperialists but then NADAR enters robbing dem party votes and mccain will win...the white man AGAIN!!!

in a way im glad im here the soc securty health system is number 3 in the world israel holland spain...In the usa id need at least 25000 a year to cover my getn old expenses...
we bought a place in florida for retirement in 12 years..
Von Cello 

Post No. 1642
03/06/2008 12:29 AM
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To everything there is a season

Here we are as winter heads into spring, and you send a link for "Autumn Leaves"?

I learned to play that on the guitar when I studied with Irving Forrest in Canarsie when I was around 7 years old. It's amazing that that tune is still so popular. Boy I wish I had the royalties from that tune!

In Nashville I met the guy who wrote Hang on Sloopy and Leader of the Pack. Just off of those two tunes he was able to live a pretty rich life!

They were SO big years ago. Now you never hear them. But you STILL hear Autumn Leaves!

Of course, as I tell my students, you still also hear Bach after 300 years!

Post No. 1641
03/05/2008 01:55 PM
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Fugget about da yella snow, Steve: !

Post No. 1640
03/05/2008 12:10 PM
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That's why one never sees snowWomen, of course
Von Cello 

Post No. 1639
03/05/2008 09:34 AM
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Newsflash: Don't eat yellow snow!!!!!

Here we are discussing the possible overthrow of Judeo-Christian civilization by hidden Satanic forces possing as New Age enlightened peaceniks...but Steve comes along and posts a much more important link containing the following information:

" To the list of simple childhood pleasures whose safety has been questioned, add this: eating snow. A recent study found that snow -- even in relatively pristine spots like Montana and the Yukon -- contains large amounts of bacteria. Parents who warn their kids not to eat dirty snow (especially the yellow variety) are left wondering whether to stop them from tasting the new-fallen stuff, too, because of Pseudomonas syringae, bacteria that can cause diseases in bean and tomato plants."

Pseudomonas syringae, eh? Yes, I have always felt that that was a very serious problem...all the more so today when people are diverted in their attention to silly things like the New World Order, the Endgame of Global Enslavement, and the Rise of the Police State.


Post No. 1638
03/05/2008 12:43 AM
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snowd in
Von Cello 

Post No. 1637
03/04/2008 10:10 PM
Comments (3)
Well Informed

Thanks for that link! I can tell at a glance that that will give me hours of fun finding out about a whole new way Jews are being attacked and demonized! But one must read up on this stuff to be aware of what's going on. What one does not know CAN hurt him. And this is the great thing about the internet. Who would believe a guy from the Netherlands would come out of nowhere and post this important link that could change my perceptions!

The link I posted does get into the CFR but also the mystery religions, the symbols in Washington D.C. that seem to be Satanic, i.e. the Pentagon, etc., and many other subjects. The speaker, who is a doctor who now lectures, ties a lot of things together. Of course this is just one video. I have seen hundreds by now. It is pretty amazing, but what is also amazing is the resistance I get when telling people about this stuff. It's like there has been a mass brain-washing going on for years, and people get mad when you try to pull them out of it.

I love discussing religion much to the chagrin of some of my friends. We have had some good discussions here. We have Edward who is a Catholic. We also have Steve aka Canarsie who is Jewish and lived in Israel. He is now married to a Spanish woman and living in Spain. Steve is a confirmed atheist.

I have been trying to alert some of my Jewish friends to the fact that their secular beliefs may in fact have occurred due to manipulation by forces in society. But it is hard to get someone to believe that he has been manipulated. Whether or not Judaism, or Christianity, is "the truth", nevertheless there are forces out there that seek to overthrow the Judeo-Christian ethic and replace it with something much worse...even a Satanic ethic along the lines of Nazi concepts. It is very hard to get people to even consider this possibility. WW II may have ended, but the ideas behind it have lived on in a secret way, or so it seems. But people are either too afraid or too stubborn to even look.

P.S. Beethoven opus 18 no. 1 is a great piece! What a way to start a series of quartets!

Post No. 1636
03/04/2008 07:52 AM
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Corrected link

The link in post below should have the dot at the end removed. Better yet, I just found the original website:
And while here again, I'd like to say hello to Steve, Edward and Neal! All those interesting posts of yours kept me reading and reading. And laughing. Anti-claus, rotfl!

Post No. 1635
03/04/2008 02:20 AM
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Thanks for the link! Listened to the very beginning, I think I know - this is about a.o. the CFR? The web of int'l influential "forces"? Didnot know the speaker, will listen later.
Then, I must refer you this site: The Rainbow Swastika. I haven't been there since long, also notice it is at a new place. This kept me reading and studying an thinking for days and nights, about 6 years ago.

Got to run, getting on way to rehearse opus 18:1. Nothing better than a sane Beethoven to put your mind back in order. Well, Bach.
Von Cello 

Post No. 1634
03/03/2008 10:15 PM
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I accidently posted a frown on my last post, so I made up for it with a smile this time.

I can't believe you heard that clip about the war in 1982! You are the first person to ever bring that up. It just goes to show you never know who is coming to this site and what they are taking away. Yes, that was back in my college days and things haven't changed much. We still have a large "Blame Israel First" crowd out there. You should check out the "Anti-Semites Pledge" on the "Spiritual" page under "About Von Cello". There I put together all kinds of sentiments that I have heard from people who claim they are not anti-Semitic. As you read it, you realize more and more that for people to believe that stuff they have to be anti-Semitic. Some say it is passed down in mother's milk. But in reality it is passed down by the millions of little expressions and comments that kids hear from their parents, friends, and even preachers.

The militant Muslims I don't think of as Satanic. I think they are believers in God, just very misguided. The Satanic forces I am referring to are in the West, in our own governments. I am talking about people who actually worship Satan and the gods of Egypt and Babylon. I am still new to this information so I don't know just how much to believe it, but it is interesting to say the least.

Here is one example of a video that explains some of this:

From there you can watch other videos on similar subjects. It is from a Christian group that is on the vanguard of opposing what they see as Satanic forces. If you've never seen this kind of thing before it will blow your mind.

Post No. 1633
03/03/2008 06:17 PM
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Total freedom?

Total freedom? Then I want to add that I felt my hair raise up when somewhere on the journey thru this website I came across that snippet of radio (1982, interview w/Lebanese christian) where the interviewer was not even subtly antisemitic. I lived in Israel that summer and heard a few things from the people who came back. I also heard what people saw and read in the news back home. The media are still guilty.
The Isr. army band played here a week ago, and outside were protestors lining up with signs and banners and asking the people going for the concert - "Are you going to listen to those murderers?" (sic). I was too tired to get into a discussion. Had I known, I'd prepared an anti-pamphlet. But against such a vast sea of ignorance and media-brainwashing, where to even start? Then, I'm not even sure these very demonstators would have felt comfortable with the words of the songs a Hamas or Fatah army band (if any such) would have been singing ...

So, our war in the West is a war of words, a fight for the truth to be spoken out. And, Aaron, since you mention Satanic forces ... when I see the vid\'s of Hamas or Fatah or other islamic \"armies\" training, or certain imam sermons, when I try to imagine what is inside the hearts of suicide bombers and their mothers, and yes, when I think of the Shoah, then I can in fact only think of satanic forces, 'cs there's no human way to explain. Yes, wars behind the scenes. In another dimension maybe. Because, I think, all this hate is not only about land-for-peace, or Jerusalem as capital, or the existance of Israel, ultimately, it's a struggle against the God of Israel.
No, things don't look bright at all, but if there's one thing I learned from the Jews, and from all the books I read about WWII, it is to never ever ever give up hope! Under no condition.

Aargh, I didnot want to end on a somber note! Where's my cello? Oh, it's way past midnight!

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