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Von Cello 

Post No. 2454
01/14/2009 12:45 PM
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Stretching the Truth

LN, good point! Perhaps the best point we've seen here for a while. I will talk to my teck guy about that. I have been having to make the text tiny to fit it in on one page.

Canarsie wrote: wait a minute!! if youre sure its the book from god or at least a great book you can then decide alla carte what you want and what you dont want..

Once again you have preconceived notions about what I believe. It's funny, but the atheists claim, or I should say some atheists claim, that they are so open minded, yet they seem to have very closed ideas. For instance, why can't a person believe the Bible is from God and still not follow all of it? Or why can't a person believe it is a great book but still not follow all of it? Why do so many atheists think religious people are these robots that just do whatever they read in a book? Maybe some religious people are like that, but certainly not all.

Post No. 2453
01/14/2009 11:15 AM
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Boxing people in or

stretching views ever wider, Von Cello, can't you have yr tech guy do s th about the ever wider stretching post display display?
G O D 

Post No. 2452
01/14/2009 09:24 AM
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I BELIEVE IN YOU ,oh its me in the mirrir

me too. i dont think i made it clear either that i dont follow the torah. I might have been unclear..sorry!
wait a minute!! if youre sure its the book from god or at least a great book you can then decide alla carte what you want and what you dont want.. jus like me..i decided not to follow a few minor parts like believing in

Von Cello 

Post No. 2451
01/14/2009 09:18 AM
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Why not ask?

I never said I follow everything in the Talmud or the Torah. You seem to be trying to put me in a box based on your own ideas. Rather than say things about me that are not true, why not ask me things?

And make sure you check out Schroeder's site:

That is, if you really want to learn something.
G O D 

Post No. 2450
01/14/2009 09:07 AM
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the talmud prohibits i think sex without marriage.. at least one of you has to married..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2449
01/14/2009 09:01 AM
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Oh yeah, and by the way....

P.S. You have absolutely no idea of who I have had sex with!

Von Cello 

Post No. 2448
01/14/2009 08:59 AM
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MIT trrained scientist vs. Steve

Do a search on Gerald Schroeder. He is an Orthodox Jewish scientist.

Gerald Schroeder, an MIT-trained scientist who has worked in both physics and biology, has emerged in recent years as one of the most popular and accessible apostles for the melding of science and religion. He first reconciled science and faith as different perspectives on a single whole in The Science of God. Now, in The Hidden Face of God, Schroeder takes a bold step forward, to show that science, properly understood, provides positive reasons for faith.

NEWS FLASH - World's Most Famous Atheist Accepts Existence of God, Cites Modern Science!

The best-known atheist of the last 50 years, Professor Antony Flew, made the announcement in a symposium on science and religion, that the discoveries of modern science have led him to accept the existence of God. Flew was joined in the symposium by leading Israeli scientist Gerald Schroeder and noted Scottish thinker John Haldane.
G O D 

Post No. 2447
01/14/2009 08:00 AM
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in steve we trust ........only a little

the greatest minds in your opinion..sages?
i think who is to be judge of who is a or me?
i know you have books saying this one and that one are great sages but the majority on this plnt arent jews and have their sages too.. You find it hard to view religion as a religious person..youre trapped in it and its foredrawn conclusions.its never had sex with a nonjew or were in love with a get close to the other minds other cultures and realize you are in a beautiful garden with a big gate just on the other side of the shrubbs.
the best minds are in science and they dont see a god.
how do you know that god wasnt created by science? how do you know if god believes in you? In whom does god trust??
Von Cello 

Post No. 2446
01/14/2009 06:52 AM
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Steve's God

First of all, Judaism does personalize God. There were pagans who believed that there was a God but He had nothing to do with humanity. One of the main contributions the Jews made to theology was the concept of a personal God; the idea that God is great enough to keep the heavens in motion and ALSO be concerned about the day to day life of every single person, not to mention even animalls and insects.

Yes, God could have created any universe He wanted to, and according to new scientific theories, there may be an infinite number of universes beyond what we can see with our eyes. But the Jewish belief is that the universe we live in IS perfect. It IS the best possible universe for us. Judaism teaches you to SEE the perfection. Whereas you see imperfection.

So who is correct? The greatest sages of a people who have survived for 3,500 years, or Steve?
G O D 

Post No. 2445
01/14/2009 02:06 AM
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youre saying god is and is jewish? mitsvas? is god a jew? now thats personlaizing !! god could create a world with no death no pain only happiness.if he can think of it,he can do it..hes god and Im bigger im human
Von Cello 

Post No. 2444
01/13/2009 07:42 PM
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Enjoying this world, waiting for the next

Love the comment!
Von Cello 

Post No. 2443
01/13/2009 07:24 PM
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Only one GOD ... and YOU are not it!

Good try Steve, but everyone knows that if God were to post to a guestbook He would use capitals and correct grammar!

The thing you seem to miss in your understanding about the Jewish concept of God is that there is a World to Come. Judaism states that God is good and fair, a true judge who cannot be swayed. God is looked upon in a similar way to the law of Karma. Whatever you gave will come back to you, the good and the bad. Yet we often see in this world that the good die young and the evil prosper. Judaism says that it will all balance out. In fact, the greatest rewards are in the after life. Indeed the Torah states that God gives the evil their full reward in this world so that He will not owe them anything in the next. Whereas the righteous will reap the greater rewards in heaven. You may not believe this, but the point is that according to Judaism, death is actually a great thing, if you lived a good life. So the world that you say would be better, or perfect ... a world without death, would actually be a much worse world.

Now, you could argue that God should just give us all the goodness of the afterlife in this life, but then we would never get the chance to be valiant, to do mitzvahs, to do good deeds, to fight the good fight, to grow in self-esteem and the esteem of others. Perhaps Judaism is right that the best and most perfect world is the one in which you get the chance in life to achieve greatness, and then get to experience an even greater joy in the next world.
G O D 

Post No. 2442
01/13/2009 03:23 PM
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im god talk to me vc talk to me

a world where no one dies and no one gets old no one gets sick no on has babies.
why would a I create a world with death.if im god i v=can do anything and create whatever i conceive.
Von Cello 

Post No. 2441
01/13/2009 01:57 PM
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Let's get theological

Canarsie: the first kid ever to ask his dad how can there be a god if theres misery got yourresponse..god creates misery to test ..Thats not true.. god wouldnt do that. if theres god theres perfection and god wouldnt screw are personifying god.. if gods perfect then hed create a perfect world..

Who are you to say what God is and what He would do? There are scholars who have spent their whole lives studying various traditions that have come down through the ages. And you think that YOU know all the answers?

First of all, who's to say that the world is not perfect? You are a human. We can't even begin to understand what perfection really is because we are not perfect.

In any case, what do you define as "perfect"? Would the world be perfect without death? After all, death is the thing people most dread. But if there was no death, how could there be life? If there was no pain, how could we recognize pleasure? If there was no bad, how could we recognize good?

If you were God, would you make a world of robots where no one had the capacity to do bad, to think for himself, to even be able to deny and insult you the God who created your creatures?

What in God's name is the perfect world that you say God must make to prove He is God?
G O D 

Post No. 2440
01/13/2009 01:03 PM
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Post No. 2439
01/13/2009 12:20 PM
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god fits in really well into reality
.the first kid ever to ask his dad how can there be a god if theres misery got yourresponse..god creates misery to test ..Thats not true.. god wouldnt do that. if theres god theres perfection and god wouldnt screw are personifying god.. if gods perfect then hed create a perfect world..

its obscene,,a god who on purpose f';;l.,ks with his creation..I raise my kids i teach them but i dont say you will have to suffer..My kids work for the new playstation but not 200o years.. come on..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2438
01/13/2009 10:40 AM
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Three points

I heard three points there:

my piont is theres no right no god just might. and we two are the proof.we sit pretty while others die and we dont care..

The fact that people don't help others all the time does not mean that God does not exist. And it doesn't mean that might makes right. Many people do try to help others whether through charity, volunteer work, education, etc. Should we all do more? Yes. But that doesn't mean its the law of the jungle out there.

you think its partly gods want and i think its the law of the jungle,either way they are dying and we are fat..

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about what God wants. But, yes, there is good and bad in the world. People should be better but no matter what we do there will always be some who do better than others. Who ever told you that everything was going to be equal all the time?

my point? no god cause a god wouldnt create you to suffer..i was taught that if a parent does that to a child its criminal..

If you think that people are not made to suffer than you know nothing about Judaism. The Talmud says we are all born against our wills. Why would a spirit that can see God clearly want to be put into a body where his spiritual senses are blurried? Who would want to feel pain? Who would want to have to face death?

Yet the Talmud says we are higher than angels. Why? Because we have the opportunity to do good deeds. They are like robots. They see God. They have no power to resist. But humans can do bad things. And that is why we can also do good things. The whole point of life, according to Judaism, is to do good things in a world where you can do bad things. The belief is that God will replay you, if not in this life, in the afterlife. But even without any pay, you should still do good things because it is the right thing to do.

"I beg your pardon. I never promised you a rose garden." - God to Steve

Post No. 2437
01/13/2009 10:18 AM
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my piont is theres no right no god just might. and we two are the proof.we sit pretty while others die and we dont care.. you think its partly gods want and i think its the law of the jungle,either way they are dying and we are fat..

my point? no god cause a god wouldnt create you to suffer..i was taught that if a parent does that to a child its criminal..
Von Cello 

Post No. 2436
01/13/2009 09:16 AM
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I don't see your point. You bring up a lot of things but don't really tie them together. What are you saying? Is it God's fault? Is it our fault? If so, what do you propose we do about it?

Post No. 2435
01/13/2009 08:59 AM
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look around .you are saying that the poor homeless are such cause theyre idiota lazy its in their hands but they are shmucks..i thinkthey are poor (south america ,africa ) cause the kick assers kicked their asses and they needto kick ass to get a piece of our pie..
We arent right to sit pretty while they suffer but we do sit pretty and you know they suffer but we dont care..we really dont. We talk about it, we read it, we say o no,and o god ,and help them,,but after we swing into our cars and go shopping ..We arent right,its not fair and it isnt their fault,,its OURS> not our people our histor or our neighbores,,its us..we are directly connected to their suffering.and they to our pleasure. We can try to think its gods will but thats bolony. Its us,we like our fat houses and cars and we dont want to give them up so we even use god to ease our pian. GOd helped us up and theyre down cause its gods will. Its us its you its me,,No right in this world,just a big connected mass of people goods. some get some dont some share some rob..but at night in the dark you know the truth the scarey hard dark stinking truth ..We are the problem NO. we arent the problem cause there is no problemm. Haves have nots is not a problem,its reality its the way. Its you and me
Von Cello 

Post No. 2434
01/13/2009 08:49 AM
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Israel Is Real

Do I think that Israel is necessary for Jewish survival?

Yes. Jewish history proves that almost everywhere the Jews settled there were problems. There were riots against them. There were expulsions. There were round ups, and genocide. So clearly the Jews need a homeland where they control the government. Anyone who opposses that is essentially calling for the Jews to be killed, since we know historically, that is what happens.

Will it happen in the U.S. and other places like Spain? It seems unlikely now, but it seemed unlikely in Germany too. History tells us that times change and the pattern is that eventually someone rises to power who attacks or tries to wipe out the Jews.

If the Jews were a people who just wanted power and the ability to kick everyone's ass, then I would say they should not have a homeland. Why should the world allow an evil people to gain power? But since most Jews are peaceful and have moral values, and since Israel stands for those values, I think they deserve their place in the sun.

The Arabs have at least 100 times the amount of land. They have oil out the whazoo. They have Mecca. They have Medina. They do not need that tiny strip of land that we call Israel. They don't even need the West Bank or Gaza. But the Jews actually NEED their country. History proves that it is a matter of survival for the Jews.

So, if you argue from the grounds of fairness, of need, of survival, I think a strong case can be made. But if you argue that whoever has the might is right, you will probably loose in the end.

Post No. 2433
01/13/2009 08:13 AM
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israel stands for a place where our pple can live free as jews when there will be no other place to live free as jews,,until that day jews can live free in israel and elsewhere like jersey murcia canarsie,but i wonder if you and i had been alive at the founding of israel and its very existance depended on us would you have gone?
did u ever think israel nneded you there/
Von Cello 

Post No. 2432
01/13/2009 06:52 AM
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Steve, Steve, Steve of the jungle ...

Oh well, I guess you can live in the jungle and I'll live in the civilized world.

Anyway, to me there are more important things than dying for Israel. Like dying for freedom, justice, human rights. To the extent that Israel stands for these things then dying for Isreal is laudable. But if one is fighting for a country just because he wants a place from which to kick everyone else's ass, that is not a worthwhile goal. If I thought that is what Israel was doing I would not support it. But I think most Israelis truly want peace and would not fire one shot if shots were not being fired at them.

Post No. 2431
01/13/2009 05:58 AM
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the law of the jungles is written on the leaves

what have you died for? what bdo you believe in strong enuf that you have died? NOTHING so i am to conclude that you believe not strongly. If im wrong using your own logic then we are both wrong..youve never died for israel yet its importnant to you but not are a rabbi at heart and i guess im a commando..If we had been born back in israel 2000 yrs ago,youd be rabbi and id be fighting..
even lions have rules to live the jungle. The law of the jungle is not dog eat dog, its survival is best in THE GROUP.cooperating sharing .Lions live like this without written law or GOD.its the real law of the jungle..never was never will be DOG EAT DOG..thats chaos and the jungle is very well organized in groups subgroups leadership ranking and sharing love caring aLL WITHOUT GOD OR POLICE OR LAW..THATS BURKES LAW
Von Cello 

Post No. 2430
01/12/2009 07:54 PM
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Franklin D. Roosevelt

About two hours north of New York City lies the home of Franklin Roosevelt, the president during much of WWII. I have been there a few times and find it a very interesting place. You can actually see the office where he sat with Churchill and planned his strategy against Hitler. You can still see the old furniture. You can take a walk out back and imagine what was going through his head when he took in the fresh air outside on his property.

One thing that is stressed in the exhibit is the fact that there was no guarantee that the Allies would win. The war went on for several years. Millions of people, and I mean millions, died. Hitler was a fearsome enemy and Roosevelt threw all he had against him.

Hitler's belief was that might made right. That he had to breed a "master race" of people who were unshackled by what he called the infections that the Jews put on humanity, namely morality and conscience. Through all kinds of weird occult rituals the Nazis tried to train people to be able to commit the worst kinds of brutality without flinching, without regret, without care.

Roosevelt was leading a nation that stood for freedom and democracy, that believed in equality, that said that "all men are created equal", and stressed the ideals of compassion and fair play. And who won? The anti-Jewish master race or the people of Judeo-Christian morality?

You can't say the U.S. was stronger. It was a close fight and even the president did not know who would win.

If Hitler won then you could argue that the worship of power is the ultimate road to success. But he lost. His idea lost. His world vision lost. The compassionate vision won. The "all men are created equal" people won. Kindness beat brutality. Love beat hate.

To me this is one of the greatest arguments for the belief that there is a compassionate "father" above us in heaven. Because we are born with an innate understanding of love, of equality, of compassion. People know that unbridled power is wrong, and when it gets out of hand, they band together to bring it down. Why is that? It didn't have to be that way. But, in fact, we live in a world where the fittest do survive, and the fittest are the most moral, the most kind, the most loving. This planet crushes the haters and spits them out.

Perhaps that's why they say, "God is love".

Steve, with your belief that might makes right, and the strongest man wins, you are on the side of the haters ... the losers of history. It is amazing to me that you stand with Israel, not out of love of the Jewish Bible, or love of Jewish morality, or love of Jewish destiny, but simply out of the belief that might makes right and you have to kick ass or get yours kicked. Sure, you have to be strong. You have to defend yourself. You have to be willing to fight and even die for your beliefs, BUT your beliefs have to be worth dying for.

People are always looking around and deciding who to support. If I was not Jewish and thought that all Jews thought like you, I would not support the Jews. I would support those who are struggling to make the world a better, more compassionate, more moral place. Not the ones who want to kick everyone else's ass! And that is why the world felt sympathy for the Jews after WWII. And that is why they voted to let the Jews go back home. It was out of compassion for a people who went like lambs to the slaughter, like the way Jesus went to the cross.

Now, today, many of those same people criticize Israel for defending itself. They say, "Aha, now Israel is acting like a Nazi". But I know that this is not true. LN knows it too or she would not be a supporter. Israel cannot act exactly like Jesus because Israel is not going to come back from the dead. Israel has to stay alive. But Israel seeks peace. Israel seeks a better world. And that goodness is Israel's greatest strength. NOT American bombs and rockets. It's Israel's foundation in morality, the morality of the Bible, that keeps people around the world rooting for her success.

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